tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3537931928227744840..comments2024-03-19T00:15:33.844-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Asiatic East GermanicsDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10868180996060007732019-07-27T16:11:00.681-07:002019-07-27T16:11:00.681-07:00Well the PCA that I ran on the data do show an eas...Well the PCA that I ran on the data do show an eastern shift by the Chernyakov samples compared to most Northern Europeans (those without significant Uralic ancestry). You can have a look at this using Global25 data.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45643480370151251202019-07-27T11:31:51.694-07:002019-07-27T11:31:51.694-07:00@David
Yes I know. But from what I get a PCA is n...@David<br /><br />Yes I know. But from what I get a PCA is not so dodgy and the Chernyakov samples sit at exactly the same spot as modern Europeans. Not a hint of Asian admixture.<br />epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55061134529743473812019-07-27T11:15:04.319-07:002019-07-27T11:15:04.319-07:00Chromopainter is a dodgy way to estimate ancestry ...Chromopainter is a dodgy way to estimate ancestry proportions much of the time.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87522035705031580662019-07-27T06:29:42.034-07:002019-07-27T06:29:42.034-07:00@David
That paper where the Chernyakov samples we...@David<br /><br />That paper where the Chernyakov samples were published had them show some Altain ancestry with qpAdm. However, with chromopainter it didn't show anything at all (fig 3), and the PCA (fig 2) also showed no Asian ancestry.<br /><br />I'm a bit wary to this Hunnic ancestry as the Huns appear only late to the show. epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22661780948062344932019-07-27T05:07:41.565-07:002019-07-27T05:07:41.565-07:00I don't know, but I think the important point ...I don't know, but I think the important point is that overall they do still clearly show Asian ancestry even though they probably also have a lot of Western European ancestry. This implies that they originally came from a gene pool with a lot more Asian ancestry.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8560094987953187542019-07-27T04:30:28.484-07:002019-07-27T04:30:28.484-07:00@David
"This is exactly why the Asian ancest...@David<br /><br />"<i>This is exactly why the Asian ancestry can be used as an East Germanic tracer dye to some extent.</i>"<br /><br />Do all Pla de l'Horta samples have this admixture? epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30148848176438051892019-07-27T01:35:02.054-07:002019-07-27T01:35:02.054-07:00@epoch
The remarkable thing here is the existence...@epoch<br /><br /><i>The remarkable thing here is the existence of such admixture in 550 among Visgoths who escaped Hunnic rule.</i><br /><br />This is exactly why the Asian ancestry can be used as an East Germanic tracer dye to some extent.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20069984083528448662019-07-27T00:15:26.407-07:002019-07-27T00:15:26.407-07:00I would consider the fact that two third of the ea...I would consider the fact that two third of the eastern Germanic samples do <i>not</i> contain Hunnic or other Asian ancestry as a sign you can't use it as a "tracer die" as it clearly wasn't a population wide ancestry. Hence you can't use it to prove or disprove whether Eastern Germanics contributed significantly or not to current day populations.<br /><br />I think the epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71606240738792951292019-07-20T19:51:23.082-07:002019-07-20T19:51:23.082-07:00By the way, the combination of morphological chara...By the way, the combination of morphological characteristics typical for Goths did not contribute to the formation of a general homogenous Germanic type in Medieval Europe: "A dolichocephalic with a long and high skull, a small face morphopype, which dominates the male population of the Chernyakhov culture of Western Ukraine (and Poland), was widely represented in<br />Western and Central Volodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80749201760553768312019-07-20T19:20:27.508-07:002019-07-20T19:20:27.508-07:00Personally, I was really disappointed that all the...Personally, I was really disappointed that all the studied up-to-date Gothic samples come from the periphery, the Legedzino as well. It is the north-eastern periphery of Chernyakhiv culture. The core Gothic territory was originally the Wielbark culture of Northern Poland from where historical Goths moved south and in the process mixed with everyone. Why wouldn't the geneticists start there? Volodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37760269011923707222019-07-20T18:02:16.438-07:002019-07-20T18:02:16.438-07:00@Volodymyr Lutsyk
Goths weren't related to C...@Volodymyr Lutsyk <br /><br />Goths weren't related to Celts, so saying that they kind of resembled Celts in terms of their craniometric traits isn't very informative, because no one really knows what that means.<br /><br />Also, keep in mind that there's a rule against discussing outdated typology here.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57687476661516404082019-07-20T18:01:16.407-07:002019-07-20T18:01:16.407-07:00Another interesting feature described by T. Rudych...Another interesting feature described by T. Rudych in her doctoral thesis was the presence of the type characteristic of the Baltic tribes on the territory of Lithuania in 2-5AD. This type was present only in the Middle Dnieper zone of Chernyakhiv culture (Cgernyakhiv Legedzine belongs to that area). The other two types present in that zone were Classical Gothic type I described in the comment Volodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34484197985637800332019-07-20T17:26:15.780-07:002019-07-20T17:26:15.780-07:00Let me put my 5 cents in. Goths themselves were no...Let me put my 5 cents in. Goths themselves were not a homogeneous phenomenon anthropologically speaking. The most stereotypical Gothic type, present on the territory of Poland and Western Ukraine, was already quite different from the Medieval Germanic type which in Medieval times spanned huge distances from Scandibavia to Northern Italy. The specific recognizable Gothic type pattern includes a Volodymyr Lutsykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096015411407190665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73222692485838110592019-07-17T14:20:38.782-07:002019-07-17T14:20:38.782-07:00Somewhat unexpected comments from this paper:
Mai...Somewhat unexpected comments from this paper:<br /><br />Main Text: <i>We find that within Scandinavia, present-day populations are still structured according to the ancient Viking population groups. The component that we associated as Norwegian-like is present at 45-65% in present-day Norway. Similarly, the ancient Swedish-like ancestry is present at 15-30% within Sweden. Of the four Swedish Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46232592074096139812019-07-17T13:39:12.847-07:002019-07-17T13:39:12.847-07:00@Matt, Arza
Fig. S12.6 fineStructure modeling show...@Matt, Arza<br />Fig. S12.6 fineStructure modeling shows the Eastern European sample composition very well.<br /><br /> Russian samples from Kurevanikha-2 are basically Slavs (proxied with Poles), Staraya Ladoga is Scandinavian+Finnic, Western Russian (Gnezdovo) sample mainly Slavic but with some Southern European-like ancestry proxied with Italian and surprisingly minor Danish instead of SwedishShaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71852559000570910902019-07-17T13:06:56.506-07:002019-07-17T13:06:56.506-07:00@arza, if you're interested in the Viking Age ...@arza, if you're interested in the Viking Age and Medieval samples from Poland, Russia, Ukraine and Gotland from this set, I'd think it might be worth looking at the Extended Data Fig. 3. Quite a few samples in the ancient Viking Age sets who are strongly asymmetric outliers on the direct D(YRI,ancient Y; Poland,Denmark) axis*.<br /><br />*which seems largely at first glance to be not Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39672278407979885082019-07-17T12:51:53.182-07:002019-07-17T12:51:53.182-07:00^^^
Population genomics of the Viking world
https:...^^^<br />Population genomics of the Viking world<br />https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/703405v1Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38328028821068870752019-07-17T12:51:04.610-07:002019-07-17T12:51:04.610-07:00@ Davidski
Stolarek et al. made a claim that mtDN...@ Davidski<br /><br />Stolarek et al. made a claim that mtDNA pools of Kowalewko and IA Jutland are connected. Then they concluded that this was due to movement of people from Jutland to Greater Poland.<br /><br />Yet in Margaryan et al. we can read that:<br /><br /><i>Our findings also show that Vikings are not simply a direct continuation of the Scandinavian Iron Age groups. Rather than simple Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82594086070286644502019-07-17T12:44:37.578-07:002019-07-17T12:44:37.578-07:00@ Davidski
Thanks. @ Davidski <br /><br />Thanks. Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58324390431083955762019-07-17T12:35:55.122-07:002019-07-17T12:35:55.122-07:00I have a question to a very recent paper on the ha...I have a question to a very recent paper on the haplogroup DE being of an African instead of an Asian origin. <br /><br />"A 2019 study by Haber et al. supports an African origin for haplogroup DE (based in part on the proposed discovery of haplogroup D0 found in three Nigerians, according to the authors a branch of the DE lineage near the DE split but on the D branch, as well as on y-dna Zarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07784247989466277910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67982017431055477402019-07-17T12:06:50.835-07:002019-07-17T12:06:50.835-07:00On the subject of Germanic speakers, this fresh pa...On the subject of Germanic speakers, this fresh paper shall needs a Eurogenes post:<br />https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/703405v1 - <i>"Population genomics of the Viking world"</i><br /><br /><i>The Viking maritime expansion from Scandinavia (Denmark, Norway, and Sweden) marks one of the swiftest and most far-flung cultural transformations in global history. During this time (c.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52534718702908802312019-07-17T07:18:23.357-07:002019-07-17T07:18:23.357-07:00Far out. Honestly I can't Even care, just smil...Far out. Honestly I can't Even care, just smile. Bastian Barxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17378192391739571791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63487318014953090592019-07-17T03:28:34.461-07:002019-07-17T03:28:34.461-07:00Palacista and Bastian Barx
If you would of enough...Palacista and Bastian Barx<br /><br />If you would of enough smart to stop in time, not to show to the world how manipulative and lower can be a nation looking for some antiquity and greatness.<br />For the development of the "Great german Idea" in the 17th-18th centuries, the "German" origin of the Goths and "Gothicism" was of particular importance.<br /><br />If natsunoamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07946553288506970769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10955569059074304062019-07-16T21:42:07.667-07:002019-07-16T21:42:07.667-07:00@Grant
See here...
The Uch-Kurbu monument of the...@Grant<br /><br />See here...<br /><br /><a href="https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs41586-018-0094-2/MediaObjects/41586_2018_94_MOESM1_ESM.pdf" rel="nofollow">The Uch-Kurbu monument of the second stage of the Great Migration</a><br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68374742090983482372019-07-16T19:44:26.400-07:002019-07-16T19:44:26.400-07:00Regarding the name "Tian Shan Huns" – ar...Regarding the name "Tian Shan Huns" – are they called this because they cluster with one or more of the various groups known historically as "Huns", because of their material culture, or some other reason? Granthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14497157622414829592noreply@blogger.com