tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3831399501061779879..comments2024-03-19T00:15:33.844-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: A male-dominated conquest of Europe by Bronze Age steppe pastoralistsDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger84125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61435025496435692182016-12-31T07:11:46.546-08:002016-12-31T07:11:46.546-08:00Hello! First want to say, I really enjoy this blog...Hello! First want to say, I really enjoy this blog! THANK YOU! Ok, regarding this male biased migration from the LNBA Steppe(Rib & R1a).........Did these men have cattle or sheep, animals to move to greener pastures?(because the climate in the Pontic-Caspian Steppes became colder & drier 3000-2000 BCE) AND for every 5-14 males, 1 woman from the Steppes migrated. I would like to know a lotjvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283765275775165180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35989141387706876602016-10-13T18:39:06.246-07:002016-10-13T18:39:06.246-07:00See what nagging your husbands can do?See what nagging your husbands can do?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05000112732712350375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62879471386658495762016-10-10T13:39:37.926-07:002016-10-10T13:39:37.926-07:00@Onur:
Thank you for that information.
I just se...@Onur:<br /><br />Thank you for that information.<br /><br />I just sent you a join request from the FB page (bisikletliyim). Unfortunately, we tested via 23andme and do not have FTDNA kits.<br /><br />I'll also email you later today after I get through a bit more grading.<br /><br />Tekrar sagol!MomOfZohahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09787348878657753214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65108999709082208362016-10-10T06:37:49.148-07:002016-10-10T06:37:49.148-07:00@MomOfZoha
Is it just a coincidence that you happ...@MomOfZoha<br /><br /><i>Is it just a coincidence that you happened to know that Trabzonlu donor or do you collect and analyze Anatolian/Turkish/Turkic DNA for academic/professional purposes?<br /><br />Eger bu konuda arastirma yapiyorsan sana email ile soru sorabilirmiyim?</i><br /><br />I know that donor from Trabzon personally from Facebook as we were in the Facebook group of the same FTDNA Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43967820923335405122016-10-06T20:39:59.198-07:002016-10-06T20:39:59.198-07:00@Onur:
Is it just a coincidence that you happened ...@Onur:<br />Is it just a coincidence that you happened to know that Trabzonlu donor or do you collect and analyze Anatolian/Turkish/Turkic DNA for academic/professional purposes?<br /><br />Eger bu konuda arastirma yapiyorsan sana email ile soru sorabilirmiyim?MomOfZohahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09787348878657753214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5976790338662316852016-10-04T14:11:43.698-07:002016-10-04T14:11:43.698-07:00I really wish these geneticists would sample south...I really wish these geneticists would sample southern Europe too.Arch Hadeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00679577049261430513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90964905369721798182016-10-04T13:18:36.595-07:002016-10-04T13:18:36.595-07:00Villabruna isn't ancestral to shit. His ancest...Villabruna isn't ancestral to shit. His ancestor split with the ancestor of L51 around 3k and maybe up to 5k years prior. You need to look further east, at the source of epiGravettian. End of story... Moving on.Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21411772220088826212016-10-04T05:24:44.432-07:002016-10-04T05:24:44.432-07:00@Gioiello
I doubt that a theory may be demonstrat...@Gioiello<br /><br /><i>I doubt that a theory may be demonstrated from autosomal SNPs.</i><br /><br />A theory cannot be demonstrated ignoring autosomal SNPs.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3594568214013375762016-10-04T04:58:43.508-07:002016-10-04T04:58:43.508-07:00@ Simo_W
I posted that in another thread here and ...@ Simo_W<br />I posted that in another thread here and also on YFull page of FB. These uniparental markers seem demonstrating perfectly my theory. I doubt that a theory may be demonstrated from autosomal SNPs.<br /><br />@ Richard Rocca<br />If you understand something of genetics, this is the demonstration as to R-V88 was born and its migration 7500 years ago from Italy to Iberia and 7000 years Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90737665215006635202016-10-04T04:35:52.667-07:002016-10-04T04:35:52.667-07:00But Villabruna didn't have enough EHG ancestry...But Villabruna didn't have enough EHG ancestry to explain modern Italians, nor did they have enough CHG, they were basically straight WHG. So you'd need considerable autosomal admixture coming into Italy, without carrying any yDNA along, for your theory to work. And moreover it would be spooky if Neolithic Italy had CHG, the Caucasus had CHG, but early Neolithic Anatolia inbetween didn&#Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42236984845603252492016-10-04T03:42:47.414-07:002016-10-04T03:42:47.414-07:00@ Simon_W
My theory of an "Italian Refugium&...@ Simon_W<br /><br />My theory of an "Italian Refugium" was concerned about the origin of hg. R1b1-L389+ and subclades. I am certain so far, and I think having demonstrated that, that R-V88, R-L389+, R-M335 were here and very likely part of the clan Villabruna. I said that the R-L23 of Yamnanya came from Italy or at least from Western Europe. I am waiting that also R1a, J and I of Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24438462701241611002016-10-04T03:16:00.256-07:002016-10-04T03:16:00.256-07:00Or put differently, there was admixture with LNBA ...Or put differently, there was admixture with LNBA Europeans, or in other words a "northern" influence, plus excess CHG related admixture in the south. It would be an outright miracle if by chance a similar LNBA ancestry arose in Italy independently from the one in the north, and that South Italian HG were by chance similar to CHG and to Anatolian Chalcolithics. And anyway, Italy is an Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12685842526903571562016-10-04T03:00:07.400-07:002016-10-04T03:00:07.400-07:00Well, Latins from pile dwellers, or more precisely...Well, Latins from pile dwellers, or more precisely from the Terramare culture, that's a hypothesis at best. According to some archaeologists the Terramare facies penetrated the Tyrrhenian area fully. Latins via the Balkans at an earlier date would be another hypothesis. In any case for linguistic reasons they must have had a slightly different origin than the Sabellics. And as for their own Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45070463782412291892016-10-03T13:23:33.453-07:002016-10-03T13:23:33.453-07:00@ Atriðr
"The intrusion of the Latini into t...@ Atriðr<br /><br />"The intrusion of the Latini into the peninsula is attested by their own myths, nevermind the areal features of Etruscan onto the language. It also has less declensions than other I.E. languages, another strike against its antiquity. And where do you get this 4500 BC proof of Latin? I've never seen so I'm curious". <br />1) By a genetic point of view, there Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8616167127474561252016-10-03T12:46:47.412-07:002016-10-03T12:46:47.412-07:00Don't think Basque situation is comparable eve...Don't think Basque situation is comparable even if we presume I-E gave them Y-DNA but no language. Papuan Y-DNA and autosomal influence is all over Polynesia but Austronesian dominates the Pacific - even Melanesia - and Papuan languages are restricted. Basque is an isolate and surrounded by I-E.Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24783531443337720252016-10-03T12:36:47.287-07:002016-10-03T12:36:47.287-07:00@Gioiello
Well, it's safer not to use "c...@Gioiello<br /><br />Well, it's safer not to use "consensus" as an argument, especially when you seek to promote a view that no consensus remotely believes. <br /><br />The sound change you describe is not set in stone. Also, by that same approach, s always -> h, but never h -> s. This hasn't stopped the distinguished from dating Avestan older than Sanskrit in one instanceAtriðrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13083384836707338698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56473872064794840542016-10-03T12:16:59.132-07:002016-10-03T12:16:59.132-07:00@ Shaikorth, good question and interesting idea. I...@ Shaikorth, good question and interesting idea. I haven't checked out the ancestry estimates yet. Just from a quick look the Tongan group has about 25% ancestry from presumably mainly male Oceanian people, so it may be that a lack of language shift is just something like the Basque case? Where there's a clear impact that visually looks around 25% but the Basque language may be something Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68678795464918796992016-10-03T11:58:31.097-07:002016-10-03T11:58:31.097-07:00Assuming Lapita spoke Austronesian there was no la...Assuming Lapita spoke Austronesian there was no language shift associated with the genetic shift. Matrilineality allowed for male-mediated Papuan admixture and then mixed Austronesian groups expanded over the unmixed ones further in the Pacific?Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32683695716112326242016-10-03T11:28:44.365-07:002016-10-03T11:28:44.365-07:00@ Davidski, thanks for the info on your experiment...@ Davidski, thanks for the info on your experiments. Maybe one day the quality of the samples will be enriched heavily and can be tested.<br /><br />I might suggest that if the Yamnaya's X can't be tested reliably with low SNP count, there might still be some trace in the X of the populations who are descended from them, where these are richer in CHG than the autosome. <br /><br />(ThoughMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31912988054146782142016-10-03T10:42:39.351-07:002016-10-03T10:42:39.351-07:00Also worth investigating: what were the Padanian G...Also worth investigating: what were the Padanian Gauls like after admixture with the locals, and how much continuity was there after the Roman conquest? It seems like Italian geneticists are not interested in this sort of questions.Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43097923700898232842016-10-03T10:34:45.260-07:002016-10-03T10:34:45.260-07:00I agree with most commenters here that we desperat...I agree with most commenters here that we desperately need samples of late Bronze Age and Iron Age autosomal DNA from Italy, to finally answer questions like: what were the early Latins like? Did they already have that strong south Italian component that modern central Italians have? Or were they still Iberian-like? And what were the Etruscans like? Is there any evidence for admixture with an Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21991569095810042422016-10-03T10:14:57.630-07:002016-10-03T10:14:57.630-07:00@ Atriðr
I think no serious linguist doubts that...@ Atriðr<br /> <br />I think no serious linguist doubts that centum languages are older than the satem ones. We may have "s" from "Ky", never "Ky" from "s", without counting all the intermediate positions as Albanian "th". You could say that a centum language is the Easternmost, as Tocharian, but we have the law of the "aree laterali" (Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57338171899652137942016-10-03T09:17:03.436-07:002016-10-03T09:17:03.436-07:00@Gioiello
On your points:
2) Although there is ...@Gioiello<br /><br />On your points: <br /><br />2) Although there is a propensity towards claiming centum the oldest, there is no proof. So I wouldn't use this as a rock-solid argument. Also, k-s sound change not understood by most, even linguists. Worth the study. <br /><br />3) Diversity of which languages? Latin entered the peninsula from outside. There is not that much diversity in the Atriðrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13083384836707338698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31783853925057640512016-10-03T03:35:37.501-07:002016-10-03T03:35:37.501-07:00@ KarlK
"I am not sure there is any real bas...@ KarlK<br /><br />"I am not sure there is any real basis for this conclusion. We basically have no idea how the Basque or pre-Indo European Sardinians came to have their languages, or how their linguistics were related, if at all."<br /><br />But that's my point. You're the one who posited a genetic link between Basques and Sardinians, which I also took as your tacit support Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36261502483465608612016-10-03T00:31:28.620-07:002016-10-03T00:31:28.620-07:00@Gioiello
I thank you for your information, but i...@Gioiello<br /><br /><i>I thank you for your information, but it seemed to me that he said being of Laz origin</i><br /><br />Yes, I know. It is because in modern Turkey everyone from northeastern Turkey is wrongly assumed to be Laz despite the fact that Trabzon and many other provinces of northeastern Turkey have no Laz population.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.com