tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post3973023266753114094..comments2024-03-28T23:21:04.175-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Trypillian mtDNA + hints of things to come?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger214125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73575630558485789962017-02-28T18:02:41.845-08:002017-02-28T18:02:41.845-08:00@ Ric Hern
"What could have happened is Vuce...@ Ric Hern<br /><br />"What could have happened is Vucedol I2a which apparently looks like the majority could have spread West to Iberia maybe taking some R1b DF27 ( who adopted the Non-Indo-European part of Vucedol) with them via a maritime route.?"<br /><br />We only have one Vucedol sample - and its R1b. The other BA Hungary samples which are mostly I2a are not Vucedol, as Vucedol Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2274213702338930462017-02-28T17:47:10.828-08:002017-02-28T17:47:10.828-08:00@ Andrew
"I agree. This is a true fact. It d...@ Andrew<br /><br />"I agree. This is a true fact. It doesn't necessarily mean that they spoke IE languages. Two plausible theories could explain this: (1) people with the Yamnaya autosomal component may not have been mono-lingual (or even shared the same language family) in their homeland at the pertinent times, or (2) the ethnogenesis of the Bell Beaker culture from Yamnaya-like Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71285400280990244992017-02-28T10:38:31.990-08:002017-02-28T10:38:31.990-08:00@Rob
"@ Alberto & Andrew
Basques have a...@Rob<br /><br />"@ Alberto & Andrew <br />Basques have amongst the highest Yamnaya admixture in Iberia compared to other Iberian groups."<br /><br />I agree. This is a true fact. It doesn't necessarily mean that they spoke IE languages. Two plausible theories could explain this: (1) people with the Yamnaya autosomal component may not have been mono-lingual (or even shared the andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7612655756010233052017-02-28T10:19:07.377-08:002017-02-28T10:19:07.377-08:00Davidski
"The steppe people and steppe-deriv...Davidski<br /><br />"The steppe people and steppe-derived cultures in Central Europe seemed to have practiced male patrilocality/female exogamy (wait for the upcoming study on the Lach Valley in Bavaria). How does that square with the statement that most of the breding was internal?"<br /><br />i think the idea is there could have been peaceful coexistence for n generations with say 1 Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13053077866885490022017-02-28T09:07:06.845-08:002017-02-28T09:07:06.845-08:00@Aram - Good point, my mistake.@Aram - Good point, my mistake.Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48472633662461439272017-02-28T08:33:50.378-08:002017-02-28T08:33:50.378-08:00The Northwest Block included a large part of North...The Northwest Block included a large part of Northern Gaul, Norgh of rivers Somme and Oise, where lived (2000 years ago) the Morini, Menapii...<br />It is guessed by several authors (Kuhn, Gysseling and more recently Sergent) that it existed a non-Celtic substra because of some archaisms found in toponyms and anthroponyms. It is a supposition, not a verified fact. Moreover, they postulated that Folkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269054619016691149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62822716714179769772017-02-28T03:43:14.160-08:002017-02-28T03:43:14.160-08:00@ Nirjhar007 said...
Enough hogwash , let get som...@ Nirjhar007 said... <br />Enough hogwash , let get something real and talk on : <br />Understanding ancient human population genetics of the eastern Eurasian steppe through mitochondrial DNA analysis: Central Mongolian samples from the Neolithic, Bronze Age, Iron Age and Mongol Empire periods <br />http://pqdtopen.proquest.com/doc/1868417323.html?FMT=ABS<br /><br /><br />Both the H2a2 and U5a1 Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86885829836998973202017-02-28T03:35:24.678-08:002017-02-28T03:35:24.678-08:00Maybe R1b DF27 and R1b L21 split up in the Vucedol...Maybe R1b DF27 and R1b L21 split up in the Vucedol Culture/Yamna amalgam, with DF27 becoming Non-IE taking a Maritime Route with I2a to Iberia while R1b L21 took the Northern Route and retaining more of the Yamna Cultural aspects.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24887027293137981192017-02-28T03:23:08.100-08:002017-02-28T03:23:08.100-08:00Enough hogwash , let get something real and talk o...Enough hogwash , let get something real and talk on : <br /><br />Understanding ancient human population genetics of the eastern Eurasian steppe through mitochondrial DNA analysis: Central Mongolian samples from the Neolithic, Bronze Age, Iron Age and Mongol Empire periods <br />http://pqdtopen.proquest.com/doc/1868417323.html?FMT=ABS<br /><br />The also found Indian Mtdna...Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13257371980729953902017-02-28T03:09:56.754-08:002017-02-28T03:09:56.754-08:00@ Alberto & Andrew
Basques have amongst the h...@ Alberto & Andrew <br />Basques have amongst the highest Yamnaya admixture in Iberia compared to other Iberian groups. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49205370850674205152017-02-28T03:07:17.495-08:002017-02-28T03:07:17.495-08:00What could have happened is Vucedol I2a which app...What could have happened is Vucedol I2a which apparently looks like the majority could have spread West to Iberia maybe taking some R1b DF27 ( who adopted the Non-Indo-European part of Vucedol) with them via a maritime route.?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88772182089648637602017-02-28T03:07:16.050-08:002017-02-28T03:07:16.050-08:00@ colin
In some of beaker burials in Bohemia, som...@ colin<br />In some of beaker burials in Bohemia, some individuals interred as females turned out to be biological males. It's seems that only some males were allowed to be, or had qualified to be, as such. To a smaller degree, some females were interred as males (ie with weapons, etc). Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13674590310979358122017-02-28T02:30:02.266-08:002017-02-28T02:30:02.266-08:00@ Rob
"Linguist Peter Schrijver speculates on...@ Rob<br />"Linguist Peter Schrijver speculates on the reminiscent lexical and typological features of the region, from an unknown substrate whose linguistic influences may have influenced the historical development of the (Romance and Germanic) languages of the region. He assumes the pre-existence of pre-Indo-European languages"<br />And you didn't reply about Iberia". <br /><Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20758980013350496222017-02-28T02:02:03.580-08:002017-02-28T02:02:03.580-08:00@Andrew
Thanks for trying to explain some basics ...@Andrew<br /><br />Thanks for trying to explain some basics that everyone should know here. Not that many will listen or learn, but it's nice to hear a sane summary of the situation based on the current state of our knowledge and not on fantasies.Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75213200666537638762017-02-28T01:36:14.100-08:002017-02-28T01:36:14.100-08:00But I don't think Vucedol relates to BB strong...But I don't think Vucedol relates to BB strongly. I see it more an Adriatic "cousin", but who knows Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49575253732700604522017-02-28T01:31:52.456-08:002017-02-28T01:31:52.456-08:00You're again making straw man arguements. I ne...You're again making straw man arguements. I never suggested that R1b expanded from Iberia or Ireland did I ? Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66828677760231377092017-02-28T01:27:35.627-08:002017-02-28T01:27:35.627-08:00I don't think everyone spoke IE, no. The langu...I don't think everyone spoke IE, no. The languoscape was variegated. Not every R1b -L51 was IE; nor were all non-L51 in WE non-IE. IF there was a simple linear relationship between Haplogroup and language, that dissipated to no small extent after 2200 BC .<br />Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78069601593707737552017-02-28T01:27:18.092-08:002017-02-28T01:27:18.092-08:00From an Archaeological point of view Marija Gimbut...From an Archaeological point of view Marija Gimbutas mentioned that the Bell Beaker complex looks like a amalgam of Yamna and the Vucedol Cultures. R1b was found at a Vucedol site in Hungary. So you have R1b at +-2800 bC.in Hungary +-2600 bC.in Germany +-2200 bC.in Britain and +-2000 bC.in Ireland. Mmm....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83394421827311047382017-02-28T01:15:48.468-08:002017-02-28T01:15:48.468-08:00The Wessex Culture shows clear connections to the ...The Wessex Culture shows clear connections to the Helversum Culture in the Northwestblock. The Wessex Culture also show clear connections to the Irish Bronze Age which produced the R1b L21 samples.These R1b area clearly related to the samples from Kromsdorf and Quedlinburg in Germany etc. So did the Central Europeans not speak Indo-European at that time ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76243507500134196672017-02-28T01:06:51.357-08:002017-02-28T01:06:51.357-08:00How does Non-Celtic and Non-Germanic suddenly beco...How does Non-Celtic and Non-Germanic suddenly become Non-Indo-European ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5533380180841612302017-02-28T01:04:21.179-08:002017-02-28T01:04:21.179-08:00The Iberian speaking territory hugged the Eastern ...The Iberian speaking territory hugged the Eastern Coastline mostly and a Hotspot outside the Basque Territory actually was in Celtiberian territory and not within Pure Iberian territory. Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83174050056612396762017-02-28T01:00:25.881-08:002017-02-28T01:00:25.881-08:00So Celtic also have a substrate but they could hav...So Celtic also have a substrate but they could have acquired that anywhere from the Ukraine to Ireland. Of cause there were Old Europeans living in Europe before Indo-Europeans arrived but their DNA sofar do not show much of a connection to the bulk of Indo-European speaking R1a and R1b people.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67515577016389642132017-02-28T00:52:20.480-08:002017-02-28T00:52:20.480-08:00Did you actually haver a look at the Map of Langua...Did you actually haver a look at the Map of Languages spoken in Spain and Portugal before the Carthaginian invasion 300 bC. ? 3/4 of that territory was already Indo-European speakers.That is long before Rome arrived there.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62058482460174923062017-02-28T00:50:41.827-08:002017-02-28T00:50:41.827-08:00Wspomniano tu o Bawarii Sadzę że Europejskie R1b...Wspomniano tu o Bawarii Sadzę że Europejskie R1b-CT9219 narodził się gdzieś pomiędzy Bawarią a Czechami. Tam znajdują się R1b-cts9219 bez przydziału do gałęzi. Osetyńska Grupa CTs9219 jest dosłownie ja jedna rodzina. Mają kuzynów w Bawarii we Włoszech no i Bułgarii. Osetyński odział CTS9219 to świeżynka na Kaukazie. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17604825972838225132017-02-28T00:38:15.536-08:002017-02-28T00:38:15.536-08:00Yes, the NWB is from pre-Roman Iron Age. Changes i...<br />Yes, the NWB is from pre-Roman Iron Age. Changes in settlements occurred after the Roman conquest up to the Rhine (& beyond), when new tribes were settled as vassals (your belgae, Chatti, etc)<br /><br />"The term Nordwestblock itself was coined by Hans Kuhn,[3] who considered the inhabitants of this area neither Germanic nor Celtic, thus attributing to the people a distinct Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.com