tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post4763903022247877630..comments2024-03-28T02:40:18.114-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Through time AND space?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger198125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51844382137623116962017-05-10T07:21:49.446-07:002017-05-10T07:21:49.446-07:00@Anthro Survey
I agree with all your points about...@Anthro Survey<br /><br />I agree with all your points about history and genetics in your reply to me. Some months ago I read the thediplomat.com article you linked, I do not find anything to object to in that article either. I should add that the Mongolian-triggered Oghuz/Turkman immigrants to (western) Anatolia had come to their "source" regions in Khwarezm, the Greater Khorasan, Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10934839862308944822017-05-10T04:05:21.922-07:002017-05-10T04:05:21.922-07:00@Derek
David Anthony on the supposed Potapovka ho...<a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/through-time-and-space.html?showComment=1494171626003#c7973187380731014251" rel="nofollow">@Derek</a><br /><br /><i>David Anthony on the supposed Potapovka horse head burial:<br /><br />"A horse sacrifice above the Potapovka grave is dated by sample AA 47802 to about 1900-1800 BCE. Although they were almost a thousand years apart, they looked, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62124866636795409402017-05-10T02:00:12.731-07:002017-05-10T02:00:12.731-07:00@jv
Yamnaya & the Veda. This Yamnaya male was...<a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2017/05/through-time-and-space.html?showComment=1494173406520#c1509832497158156366" rel="nofollow">@jv</a><br /><br /><i>Yamnaya & the Veda. This Yamnaya male was MtDNA H6a1b. http://archive.archaeology.org/0203/newsbriefs/cudgel.html</i><br /> <br /> <br />I don't think cudgels are IE specific as ancient Elamites had cudgels too.<br /><br />I canAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6559190158616979682017-05-09T14:24:48.306-07:002017-05-09T14:24:48.306-07:00@Onur Dinçer
Btw, I really hope the girl's sk...@Onur Dinçer<br /><br />Btw, I really hope the girl's skeletal remains have not been contaminated! Would be a huge bummer for the archeogenetics community.<br /><br />Indeed, that theory makes a whole lot of sense and seems to be well-grounded historically. Now that I've thought about it, from the corner of my mind I remembered an article I've encountered once and it essentially Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57082712101127157152017-05-09T07:09:47.643-07:002017-05-09T07:09:47.643-07:00Arza,
My english isn't what it used to be. I ...Arza,<br /><br />My english isn't what it used to be. I meant "slavic" of course, not the 'slavonic' dialect of the slavic languages, specifically.<br /><br />As you may know, the first clear-cut trace of A slavic language ('proto-slavic') is attestested first by the 5th century AD. Which corresponds to the new organisations made after the fall of Rome, when the batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45272219597835047082017-05-09T05:40:54.120-07:002017-05-09T05:40:54.120-07:00@ Batman
Consequently a new, common "lingua f...@ Batman<br /><i>Consequently a new, common "lingua franca" occured in the eastern hemisphere (too), which seems to explain the formation of the 'slavonic'.</i><br /><br />Rubbish.Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60713243433420756042017-05-09T05:39:30.587-07:002017-05-09T05:39:30.587-07:00@Batman
So I am. I am no linguist, but I know eno...@Batman<br /><br />So I am. I am no linguist, but I know enough about Dutch or German languages, and the History of the said region, to assure you that if linguistically Low Frankish and Low Saxon are not anymore considered to hhave originated from the same common language, it's absolutly ridiculous to say that Low Frankish must considered outside studies about Greater Germany. <br />Just to Folkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269054619016691149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5500813751771404332017-05-09T05:18:15.445-07:002017-05-09T05:18:15.445-07:00As I said Kurti,Jinasu and others, a fine article ...As I said Kurti,Jinasu and others, a fine article on Mitanni issue is coming up real soon , you will find it quite revealing .Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56590315221804400052017-05-09T04:34:07.909-07:002017-05-09T04:34:07.909-07:00Tesmos,
"Modern linguists consider Dutch, Fr...Tesmos,<br /><br />"Modern linguists consider Dutch, Frisan and Low German like this:<br /><br />Istvaeonic>Old Frankish>Old Low Franconian>Early Middle Dutch> Late Middle Dutch> Early Modern Dutch> Dutch varieties<br />Ingvaeonic> Old Saxon> Middle Low German>Low German varieties<br />Ingvaeonic>Old Frisian>Middle Frisian>Anglo-Frisian>Frisian batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10738612093041741922017-05-09T04:30:07.751-07:002017-05-09T04:30:07.751-07:00Folker,
At times it may be highly beneficial to r...Folker,<br /><br />At times it may be highly beneficial to read to reflect, rather than read to react. Tesmos is obviously well versed in these issues.<br />batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78780544999838957652017-05-08T21:39:04.866-07:002017-05-08T21:39:04.866-07:00@ Arza
Thanks!@ Arza<br /><br />Thanks!Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84981606627221606432017-05-08T20:25:35.968-07:002017-05-08T20:25:35.968-07:00I have mentioned at least a dozen times here on th...<br />I have mentioned at least a dozen times here on this board, that Zarathustra with the rise of his own religion and Ahura Mazda as the highest deity demonized all the other Iranic deities and therefore many of them were pushed into the background over the time.<br /><br />In fact just a few comments ago I mentioned that this happened with the rise of Zoroastrianism. If some people are not Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57783539138788442102017-05-08T18:35:41.036-07:002017-05-08T18:35:41.036-07:00@kurti
Which iranic tribe worships varuna please g...@kurti<br />Which iranic tribe worships varuna please give a link. Indra, rudra/sarva and the ashvins/nasatya have been demonised in the avesta as daevas. Mittani has some decidedly IA characteristics for example aika instead of the expected PII aiva. However given the limited corpus there is still a chance for doubtJijnasuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14851649346012458747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54717250700711866292017-05-08T17:55:59.603-07:002017-05-08T17:55:59.603-07:00"his is further supported by an Indo-Aryan su..."his is further supported by an Indo-Aryan substratum in Indo-Iranian, evidenced by s-sounds that should have otherwise been h-sounds due to the Iranian sound shift."<br /><br />As I wrote above it seems like either we have a misunderstanding here or you are building a strawman. No one expects an undivided Indo_Iranian language to be closer to Iranic and no one said Mitanni was Iranic. Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10765047679702908422017-05-08T17:50:03.309-07:002017-05-08T17:50:03.309-07:00@aniasi
"Mitanni is clearly Indo-Aryan. This ...@aniasi<br />"Mitanni is clearly Indo-Aryan. This is not a matter of 'leaning' to Indo-Aryan, but being very clearly Indo-Aryan. They are not preserving some pre-divided language with archaic features. The language is not perfectly attested, because the words are written in an unadopted script by Hurrian speakers, but even then it is clearly in no way a Western Iranian language."Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45572415647416637182017-05-08T17:42:09.502-07:002017-05-08T17:42:09.502-07:00The convergence of data should point to the steppe...The convergence of data should point to the steppe not an assumptionpostneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42157459758029313882017-05-08T17:41:05.200-07:002017-05-08T17:41:05.200-07:00@jijnyasu
Not finding steppe in ivc would not rule...@jijnyasu<br />Not finding steppe in ivc would not rule out IA unless you made an a priori assumption that only steppe can be IE. If you already make such an assumption then there's is no point looking at anything or any discussionpostneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51865813483309797472017-05-08T17:24:00.255-07:002017-05-08T17:24:00.255-07:00@Tesmos
I grant you that in linguistic, Low German...@Tesmos<br />I grant you that in linguistic, Low German means nowadays Low Saxon.<br />Nevertheless, saying that Low Frankish (with Dutch and Flemish) and Fisian must not be considered as part of a Great Germany is absurd. Not only because it's History, but also because all these languages are still spoken in Germany today, even in a form of dialects.<br /><br />@Kurti<br />You should read Folkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16269054619016691149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28950520058014109612017-05-08T17:03:13.148-07:002017-05-08T17:03:13.148-07:00Mitanni is clearly Indo-Aryan. This is not a matte...Mitanni is clearly Indo-Aryan. This is not a matter of 'leaning' to Indo-Aryan, but being very clearly Indo-Aryan. They are not preserving some pre-divided language with archaic features. The language is not perfectly attested, because the words are written in an unadopted script by Hurrian speakers, but even then it is clearly in no way a Western Iranian language.<br /><br />Their Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76842281664635521002017-05-08T16:25:15.913-07:002017-05-08T16:25:15.913-07:00Cassidy (2015, SI Appendix)
Of all Neolithic sampl...<i><br />Cassidy (2015, SI Appendix)<br />Of all Neolithic samples tested, <b>Rathlin2</b> shares it's highest affinity<br />with <b>Cardial_EN</b>, Rathlin3 with Spanish_MN, and Rathlin1 with the Scandinavian Middle Neolithic<br />Gok2.<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardium_pottery<br />Impressed ware is found in the zone "covering Italy to the Ligurian coast" as Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83393413206273748492017-05-08T16:07:09.639-07:002017-05-08T16:07:09.639-07:00Lipson (2017)
Bla16 Blätterhöhle Cave R1b1 U5b2a2
...<i><br />Lipson (2017)<br />Bla16 Blätterhöhle Cave R1b1 <b>U5b2a2</b><br /><br />Malyarchuk (2010)<br />The most ancient identified subhaplogroup, U5b2, requires further phylogeographic studies. However the data presented here allow us to suggest that at least subcluster U5b2a is characterized by a predominantly central European distribution, since a large number of U5b samples from Poland, Arzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10459843383682766479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86808127355050728672017-05-08T13:04:45.359-07:002017-05-08T13:04:45.359-07:00Blogger Aram said...
"And final note. Ni...Blogger Aram said...<br /><br /> "And final note. Nirjhar's theory that Mitanni are not real Indo Aryans could be favoured by DNA.<br /> At best they can be called para IA.<br /><br /> This 3500 year old R1a is good candidate to be Mitanni."<br /><br />That is not a theory as I tried to explain years ago, that Mitanni are Indo_Aryans is a theory, a widespred theory but notKurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23175271284149055532017-05-08T12:54:00.315-07:002017-05-08T12:54:00.315-07:00"in fact, no. Lazaridis et al (supp 7) explai..."in fact, no. Lazaridis et al (supp 7) explained that it was probably not backed archeologically. That's why they proposed something like 50% EHG + CHG 44% + 6% Iran_ChL. "<br /><br />But even than that would actually include some Iran_CHL so my statement was not so wrong either way. Still I don't remember this figures all I remember are the figures I mentioned above and I Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88728484176896179272017-05-08T12:36:27.469-07:002017-05-08T12:36:27.469-07:00Ok guys it seems we will not come on terms but don...Ok guys it seems we will not come on terms but don't say I didn't tell you if it comes out something like Iran_Armenia- or even Anatolian Chalcolthic contributed to Yamnaya.Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4850661374224616452017-05-08T12:34:42.504-07:002017-05-08T12:34:42.504-07:00@Folker
"in fact, no. Lazaridis et al (supp ...@Folker<br /><br />"in fact, no. Lazaridis et al (supp 7) explained that it was probably not backed archeologically. That's why they proposed something like 50% EHG + CHG 44% + 6% Iran_ChL. "<br /><br />Folker Lazaridis never proposed something like that you mentioned above.<br /><br />He proposed something like ~30% Iran_CHL with some CHG mixed with EHG. And yes he did say that Kurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.com