tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post4898625862769039551..comments2024-03-19T00:15:33.844-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Yamnaya: home-grownDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger113125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47927809998558101772022-10-18T04:28:34.401-07:002022-10-18T04:28:34.401-07:00Yamnaya doesn't have any Iran component you cl...Yamnaya doesn't have any Iran component you clown.<br /><br />That component that you think is Iranian is a actually from local steppe hunter-gatherers.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82205876445924839492022-10-18T04:24:29.052-07:002022-10-18T04:24:29.052-07:00Without CHG it's meaningless to draw conclusio...Without CHG it's meaningless to draw conclusions from. In any event, more recent and proper admixture analysis reveals a strong Iran component in proto-Yamnaya at ~4400BC. johnnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01551841246771738840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55142164962252317832018-12-16T14:10:55.967-08:002018-12-16T14:10:55.967-08:00Yamnaya is likely related to the Chucki of Bering ...Yamnaya is likely related to the Chucki of Bering Sea (Siberia), both ancestral population derived from MA1 (Mal'ta Boy), 24,000YBP. The linguistic affinity, the P-> Q genetic drift (Siberians) and ->R1a/R1b (Steppe) emphasize that the origins of the Proto-Indo-European language originated not SOUTH of the Caucasus mountains with the so-called "Caucasus HGs" but with the Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70407951872584619682018-11-27T03:54:47.939-08:002018-11-27T03:54:47.939-08:00@ George
Thanks. I will have a look. Apparently ...@ George <br /><br />Thanks. I will have a look. Apparently the Kalmyk cattle have horns that grow more from the top of their heads rather than the sides like most other European types.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1604268206486971182018-11-26T15:06:47.327-08:002018-11-26T15:06:47.327-08:00@JuanRivera
WSHG might show up in Khvalynsk simpl...@JuanRivera<br /><br />WSHG might show up in Khvalynsk simply because all EHG's can be modeled as partially WSHG (Narasimhan et al. did not try to model this, they might have simply missed it) instead of partially Afontova Gora and the fits in qpAdm do not suffer, in fact looks like they get better. Here's the model for Sidelkino, the oldest EHG, and for Karelia_HG. Credit for doing the Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32428648345502906012018-11-26T06:46:20.603-08:002018-11-26T06:46:20.603-08:00Hi Ric:
Thank you for the breed information. The ...Hi Ric:<br /><br />Thank you for the breed information. The use of domesticated plants and animals has always intrigued me by providing another behavioral dimension to our past. I am by no means knowledgeable regarding cattle; however, I was born in Iowa and spent some time on family friends’ farms and confined cattle operations while growing up.<br /> <br />http://www.cambridgeblog.org/2016/02Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313188406392471327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88291290148908992992018-11-26T06:02:34.449-08:002018-11-26T06:02:34.449-08:00Hi David:
I would expect the trading of “status” ...Hi David:<br /><br />I would expect the trading of “status” bulls/cattle to have extended beyond Anatolia during the Bronze Age. <br />https://www.academia.edu/9889029/The_rise_of_cattle_cultures_in_Bronze_Age_Anatolia<br /><br /> “In particular, I focus on the use of domesticated cattle ( Bos taurus) as a material and symbolic source of power for Bronze Age elites using a combination of faunal Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313188406392471327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80894161974536201802018-11-26T00:24:45.936-08:002018-11-26T00:24:45.936-08:00I recall a White Aurochs Cavepainting in France. I...I recall a White Aurochs Cavepainting in France. It looks almost identical to the White Park Cattle breed. The White Park breed are genetically closest to the Highland Cattle Breed and related to the local Aurochs....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-78639417069491834712018-11-25T23:29:43.776-08:002018-11-25T23:29:43.776-08:00@ George
http://www.ucd.ie/newsandopinion/news/an...@ George<br /><br />http://www.ucd.ie/newsandopinion/news/ancientgenomerevealsextinctwildaurochscrossbred/Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90467978781718656352018-11-25T23:25:22.542-08:002018-11-25T23:25:22.542-08:00@ George
https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/...@ George<br /><br />https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-015-0793-zRic Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71143076484772039162018-11-25T23:10:59.624-08:002018-11-25T23:10:59.624-08:00@George
Thanks. What are the chances, do you thin...@George<br /><br />Thanks. What are the chances, do you think, of a second introduction of cattle into Europe from the Near East via the Caucasus during the Eneolithic or Early Bronze Age, via, say, the Maykop culture?<br /><br />To me it seems that the quote from the thesis abstract that I highlighted makes this rather unlikely, because the genetic structure of the ancient cattle in the AtlanticDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50595339373955192018-11-25T11:41:31.053-08:002018-11-25T11:41:31.053-08:00Hi,
Slightly of topiC, but the following paper pr...Hi,<br /><br />Slightly of topiC, but the following paper provides some background to cattle and human population dynamics in prehistoric Europe.<br /><br />The genetic prehistory of domesticated cattle from their origin to the spread across Europe - 2015. This study is based on cattle mtDNA.<br />https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4445560/ <br /><br />They do reference the 2015 Haak,Georgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03313188406392471327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79366008490721938702018-11-24T22:45:23.014-08:002018-11-24T22:45:23.014-08:00Or does it mean that Atlantic Neolithic/Chalcolith...Or does it mean that Atlantic Neolithic/Chalcolithic fringe populations imported cattle from Central Europe rather than Southern/Southwestern Europe implying that Dairy Cattle were came from Central Europe ? Or that Dairy Cattle were rather developed out of the Atlantic Aurochs than from Near Eastern strains ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76394213059317143962018-11-24T22:25:28.000-08:002018-11-24T22:25:28.000-08:00@ Davidski
". A transect through the Atlant...@ Davidski <br /><br />". A transect through the Atlantic Edge of Europe, formed of 77 genomes, suggests cattle population history of this region does not mirror that of the contemporary human population."<br /><br />What does this mean ? Does it mean that Atlantic cattle had more European Aurochs Genes ? Or does it mean that some other Cattle Strains not directly linked to Near EasternRic Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50898193180390249502018-11-24T18:46:15.167-08:002018-11-24T18:46:15.167-08:00@JuanRivera
Your forgot Ukraine_N/Mesolithic.
@JuanRivera<br /><br />Your forgot Ukraine_N/Mesolithic.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-9508495533012355342018-11-24T14:27:47.130-08:002018-11-24T14:27:47.130-08:00@All
I found an interesting thesis online about a...@All<br /><br />I found an interesting thesis online about ancient European livestock genomics, and was going to blog about it, but then realized that it's just an abstract, and the whole thing is embargoed for another two years. So I'll just post the abstract here.<br /><br />Anyone want to guess what the sentence in bold is actually saying?<br /><br /><i>This thesis demonstrates the Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67861714508768653422018-11-24T07:01:43.219-08:002018-11-24T07:01:43.219-08:00Maybe I just want to see things but I see U5a1 fro...Maybe I just want to see things but I see U5a1 from the Danube Gorge Mesolithic groups down the Danube during the early Neolithic, then at Derievka, among the Khvalynsk samples and at Samara....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11643704134126043932018-11-24T06:22:40.188-08:002018-11-24T06:22:40.188-08:00Archeologically it looks as if there were some kin...Archeologically it looks as if there were some kind of connection between the Danube Gorge populations and the Crimea via beadtypes and toolkits. If this connection was via the Lower Danube and up the Northwest coast of the Black Sea it could maybe be that Hamangia picked up some extra WHG on their way North along the Black Sea Coast....?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32619039606768421422018-11-24T04:09:27.541-08:002018-11-24T04:09:27.541-08:00@Them meee, not really a dumb question. My take at...@Them meee, not really a dumb question. My take at the most is what those results on GAC, other MN, Yamnaya, and more generally ancient European samples have shown is that samples within the broad genetic groupings (HG, EEF) have tended to be quite diverse on pigmentation variants checked, it seem that there is not too much consistency in selection (at least over short time scales) and that Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55710127748756702202018-11-24T03:30:27.616-08:002018-11-24T03:30:27.616-08:00Another potentially dumb question, since I feel li...Another potentially dumb question, since I feel like clearing things up a bit with this new info: Given we remember that fuss about GAC being light haired and eyed, what could have been the largest source of lactose tolerance, light hair and eye pigmentation and their alleles in some steppe populations, particularly if GAC was’t significantly ancestral to them? Could it still be a EEF group, Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17718136580023709390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20857439277290927602018-11-24T00:07:09.887-08:002018-11-24T00:07:09.887-08:00@Davidski
"The admixture that we're deal...@Davidski<br /><br />"The admixture that we're dealing with here is minor and might have come from several sources directly and indirectly, including from CT, GAC and Varna, so admittedly it's a very complex issue that won't be resolved unless there are many more relevant ancient samples available."<br /><br />Sure, and I never want to oversimplify things, but CT has always Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59053928784823437252018-11-23T23:58:48.777-08:002018-11-23T23:58:48.777-08:00@Bob Floy
The admixture that we're dealing wi...@Bob Floy<br /><br />The admixture that we're dealing with here is minor and might have come from several sources directly and indirectly, including from CT, GAC and Varna, so admittedly it's a very complex issue that won't be resolved unless there are many more relevant ancient samples available.<br /><br />But nevertheless, the idea that GAC was the main culprit as Wang et al. seem Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13076278874445078482018-11-23T23:55:40.216-08:002018-11-23T23:55:40.216-08:00It looks to me as if there were some displacement ...It looks to me as if there were some displacement of Mesolithic Balkans related groups Northwards and towards the Steppe during the influx of Anatolians into the Balkans during the Neolithic....Certain U5a1 subclads point to this I think...So maybe not directly related to Cucuteni Tripolye but more to some of the Ancestors of GAC...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48800435851963721552018-11-23T23:35:57.908-08:002018-11-23T23:35:57.908-08:00So the non-steppe in Yamnaya and it's predeces...So the non-steppe in Yamnaya and it's predecessors may be more CT than GAC after all, then? Seems to make more sense, especially if the reasoning behind the GAC idea has to do with these researchers taking their qpAdm results too literally, and refusing to think outside the box for a second. <br /><br />"Yeah, I tend to be very critical of the Wang et al. team. But take a look at some ofBob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-76721190133999793242018-11-23T23:27:07.618-08:002018-11-23T23:27:07.618-08:00@epoch
I think that qpAdm model for the Dolmen cu...@epoch<br /><br />I think that qpAdm model for the Dolmen culture sample is a bit of a red herring. Take a look at the error margin in that model and the ADMIXTURE result for the same individual.<br /><br />I suspect that Yamnaya- and Eneolithic steppe-like peoples already lived in the steppes between the Black and Caspian seas during the Mesolithic, if not earlier. But I'm not married to Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.com