tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post5321788440596688387..comments2024-03-28T23:21:04.175-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Swat Valley "early Indo-Aryans" at the labDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger116125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83777303287892433082017-04-24T07:36:27.631-07:002017-04-24T07:36:27.631-07:00@ Arch Haydes
'"Not all ancient supposed...@ Arch Haydes<br /><br />'"Not all ancient supposedly IE speaking populations will have bloated steppe ancestry at 50% or higher. After all...how much do Bronze age Armenians score in EMBA steppe ancestry when we add Neolithic Anatolians, Neolithic Iranians, and Caucasus Hunter Gatherers to the mix in formal admixture models? Maybe 20%? Could be the case for Indo-Aryans too."<br /><Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15490428210271408340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47109833916083107042017-04-24T05:17:58.306-07:002017-04-24T05:17:58.306-07:00Not that I know of.Not that I know of.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72318694859427906122017-04-24T04:39:41.437-07:002017-04-24T04:39:41.437-07:00Trochę nie na temat :
Czy są wykonywane badania DN...Trochę nie na temat :<br />Czy są wykonywane badania DNA ludzi z Kultura Otomani<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91097870581497250722017-04-23T23:42:16.102-07:002017-04-23T23:42:16.102-07:00@ vespertilio
"These NEW (mesolithic) y-lines...@ vespertilio<br />"These NEW (mesolithic) y-lines [F->GHIJK/NOQRT] actually spread into and populated very different areas".<br />Out of head.<br /><br />GHIJK YSC0001299/PF2622/F1329/M3658/V2308 * M3684/CTS2569/PF2661 * M3680/CTS2254/PF2657 46300 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 50900 46200 ybp" class="age"formed 48800 ybp, TMRCA 48500 ybp<br />GU33/PF3134 * L382/PF2951/M3523 * Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39305574116297378382017-04-23T16:19:57.323-07:002017-04-23T16:19:57.323-07:00"K2e-M147 was previously known as pre-NO, X, ..."K2e-M147 was previously known as pre-NO, X, and K2a in 2015, but was renamed as K2e in 2016 when it was determined that it was a sibling clade to K2a and not ancestral to it. K2e has only been found in two living individuals from South India.<br /><br />Based on the above I don't think Ust-Ishim carried K2e but rather K2a*."<br /><br />It seems clear that U-I represents an extinct batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11031231634908769922017-04-23T15:07:43.052-07:002017-04-23T15:07:43.052-07:00Armenia_MLBA shows a lot of Steppe_MLBA admixture,...Armenia_MLBA shows a lot of Steppe_MLBA admixture, while the modern Armenians I have not so much.<br /><br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2016/10/hurrians-and-others.html<br /><br />It's the same thing as in Europe with Corded Ware showing much higher Steppe_EMBA admixture than any modern Europeans.<br /><br />So we're likely to see the same pattern in SC Asia, with a group of ancientDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23769443844886695932017-04-23T14:58:23.097-07:002017-04-23T14:58:23.097-07:00Not all ancient supposedly IE speaking populations...Not all ancient supposedly IE speaking populations will have bloated steppe ancestry at 50% or higher. After all...how much do Bronze age Armenians score in EMBA steppe ancestry when we add Neolithic Anatolians, Neolithic Iranians, and Caucasus Hunter Gatherers to the mix in formal admixture models? Maybe 20%? Could be the case for Indo-Aryans too.Arch Hadeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00679577049261430513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20895031824147408902017-04-23T14:11:23.376-07:002017-04-23T14:11:23.376-07:00@Seinundzeit and Plains Wanderer
Mostly I have th...@Seinundzeit and Plains Wanderer<br /><br />Mostly I have the same information. Ust-Ishim and Oase-1 are pre-K2a, upstream of both modern branches; 2 South Indians and a Malay from Singapore are only known members of NO's sister branch. K2(xK2b, NO) is also found in various parts of Western Indonesia, which may also be some kind(s) of K2a(xNO). <br /><br />I have seen in Wikipedia and variouscapra internetensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951755327460295070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80402002360756362932017-04-23T12:58:35.049-07:002017-04-23T12:58:35.049-07:00Plains Wanderer,
Absolutely; what you've stat...Plains Wanderer,<br /><br />Absolutely; what you've stated is exactly identical to what I've been claiming (I was already under the impression that K2e-M147 has only been found in South India, and that Ust-Ishim + Oase fell under K2a).Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53509507204121780102017-04-23T12:29:59.333-07:002017-04-23T12:29:59.333-07:00@ Seinundzeit
My information might be outdated so...@ Seinundzeit<br /><br />My information might be outdated so please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding is:<br /><br />K2a-M2308 has only been found in Ust-Ishim and Oase1.<br /><br />K2a1-M2313 has only been found in two living individuals: a Telugu man and an ethnic Malay.<br /><br />K2a2-M214 is the same as NO and is ancestral to N and O.<br /><br />K2e-M147 was previously known as Plains Wandererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06757720212862072918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44276251116753049662017-04-23T01:30:43.446-07:002017-04-23T01:30:43.446-07:00Shaikorth,
You make very important points, and I ...Shaikorth,<br /><br />You make very important points, and I definitely agree that the possibilities you've outlined could easily explain things; although, it isn't just the haplotype evidence, but the Fst affinity (the closest living populations to Ust-Ishim, going by Fst, are all Indians. Interestingly, using Fst, East Asians/Australians/Onge are quite distant to Ust-Ishim. He's Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-70067982386855076072017-04-23T00:52:31.789-07:002017-04-23T00:52:31.789-07:00@Sein
Ust-Ishim haplotype contribution appeared i...@Sein<br /><br />Ust-Ishim haplotype contribution appeared in Indians (alongside Iran_N so presumably as an ASI proxy) and Native Americans (mainly as a stand-in for ANE since the common fit was U-I + Han) in Broushaki 2016 too. I think the best way to reconcile this with other data is that it happens because Ust-Ishim is less temporally distant from the ASI/Han/Onge common ancestor than Han or Shaikorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04468485423355664299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5549664741001852882017-04-23T00:41:33.494-07:002017-04-23T00:41:33.494-07:00What means is difficult to say. But it sounds a bi...What means is difficult to say. But it sounds a bit odd that Indo-Aryans just 'jumped" through BMAC without intermixture, whilst Iranics mixed. Whilst such a scenario is possible, I wonder if it means something different - such as that BMAC being more like Iranic Neolithic & 'steppe'; and Iran Chalc & K-A type ancestry being a later eastern drift. Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69240496581311506652017-04-23T00:36:23.073-07:002017-04-23T00:36:23.073-07:00Very interesting article and discussion. Also Ved...Very interesting article and discussion. Also Vedic Hinduism seems to be in many ways more archaic and steppe-like than early Zoraosterianism. The burial practises of Zoroastranism seem to be BMAC derived. Maybe this also correlates with less BMAC admixture among Early Indo-Aryans. The Vedic Dasas and archenemies of Vedic Aryans could be Bmacized Iranic tribes of Central Asia and not IVC people Coldmountainshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18351446992955041786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80188159643268864632017-04-23T00:33:53.759-07:002017-04-23T00:33:53.759-07:00@ Sein
RE: Srub Out; yes I agree actually. Her U5...@ Sein<br /><br />RE: Srub Out; yes I agree actually. Her U5a suggests a Boreal northeast Euro/Russian Meso-Neolithic origin. <br /><br />@ Sein & Slumberry<br /><br />I have noticed the same. A distinct layering of non-steppe west Eurasian ancestry might be detectable, which helps differentiate them; an addition to the different levels of ASI ancestry. <br /><br />So for Indian groups Iran Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74286361489534107912017-04-22T23:32:49.476-07:002017-04-22T23:32:49.476-07:00Slumberry,
I completely agree; going by the curre...Slumberry,<br /><br />I completely agree; going by the current evidence, it really doesn't seem like BMAC had much of a role to play in the ethnogenesis of the Indo-Aryans, as the lack of Iran_Chl (or, at any rate, the much lower affinity towards Iran_Chl) is the most striking difference between upper caste North Indians/Indo-Aryan Pakistanis and Iranic South Central Asians.<br /><br />Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17952791743931407672017-04-22T22:12:07.781-07:002017-04-22T22:12:07.781-07:00Seinundzeit
Speculative, but I'd say that the...Seinundzeit<br /><br />Speculative, but I'd say that the lack of Iran Chalcolithic ancestry in Indo-Aryan groups questions if an old favorite of some, BMAC, had any role in the formation of the Indo-Aryans whatsoever. It looks like the Aryans went trough that region quickly and pretty much bypassed them. Unlike the Iranian groups that mixed with Iran Chalcolithic people all over. Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14006703895735282172017-04-22T21:14:45.022-07:002017-04-22T21:14:45.022-07:00Rob,
That's definitely a possibility.
Althou...Rob,<br /><br />That's definitely a possibility.<br /><br />Although, one big clue we have concerning the origins of the Srubnaya_outlier-related: the ancestry of Sarmatians and Western Scythians.<br /><br />Basically, it seems that the primary differentiating factor (in terms of genetic ancestry) between Sarmatians/Western Scythians and the preceding Srubnaya Culture was an infusion of Seinundzeithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14194936397714207913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74283262486385712742017-04-22T20:48:02.082-07:002017-04-22T20:48:02.082-07:00Now talking about pet theories , if BMAC is been a...Now talking about pet theories , if BMAC is been analysed , I will expect R1a-Z2124 ad J2 from BMAC proper . I am certain also that with more sampling J2 will be found in Andronovo etc . <br /><br /><br />For Indo-Pak . The Civilization which had around 3-5 million people . I expect R1a, J2, L and R2a . <br /><br />This year all will be tested ...Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-4231565434064584482017-04-22T20:42:13.021-07:002017-04-22T20:42:13.021-07:00I can't tell you that ! :) . But both India an...I can't tell you that ! :) . But both India and Pakistan will give aDNA this year ...Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61450548404972637832017-04-22T20:40:48.260-07:002017-04-22T20:40:48.260-07:00Nirjhar,
wow, from which site? Harappa? :)Nirjhar,<br /><br />wow, from which site? Harappa? :)Saqibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14887430927738360314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91223002380552017052017-04-22T20:37:53.657-07:002017-04-22T20:37:53.657-07:00
Saqib,
No! a very good chance :) , we are lucky ....<br />Saqib,<br />No! a very good chance :) , we are lucky ....Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-44741387348254089232017-04-22T20:36:45.233-07:002017-04-22T20:36:45.233-07:00@ Sein
"As a sidenote, I included Iran_Neoli...@ Sein<br /><br />"As a sidenote, I included Iran_Neolithic and Iran_Chalc, but Srubnaya_outlier prefers CHG (just like Yamnaya), when one applies scaling to the data"<br /><br />Ah, okay, with weighted sets I get similar:<br /><br />Srubnaya_outlier:I0354<br />"Yamnaya_Samara:I0231" 64.9<br />"AfontovaGora3:I9050.damage" 28.9<br />"Itelmen" 3.5<Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67384052066467892372017-04-22T20:35:40.342-07:002017-04-22T20:35:40.342-07:00@Nirjhar007
You mean no chance of DNA from Harapp...@Nirjhar007<br /><br />You mean no chance of DNA from Harappa, Mehergarh or Mohenjedaro? Saqibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14887430927738360314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79816152700003229402017-04-22T20:33:09.608-07:002017-04-22T20:33:09.608-07:00No Saqib . Pakistan is also well analysed , I hear...No Saqib . Pakistan is also well analysed , I heard a few days back . Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.com