tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post5508944239855077291..comments2024-03-29T04:00:27.058-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: FinngoliansDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33902138049357616412015-08-14T22:59:56.310-07:002015-08-14T22:59:56.310-07:00Doesnt some study claim the scandinavian HGs beein...Doesnt some study claim the scandinavian HGs beeing all incestoid clones originating from a extremely tiny group? Isnt it totaly normal then, to form a cluster? Doesnt families create their own cluster in admixture if you use more than 1?Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56692718024948320012015-08-14T04:47:37.032-07:002015-08-14T04:47:37.032-07:00Got you Got you CroMagnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770857541840882884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38551791924532960112015-08-14T03:34:49.522-07:002015-08-14T03:34:49.522-07:00CroMagnon,
Unless I've musunderstood what you...CroMagnon,<br /><br /><i>Unless I've musunderstood what you're getting at; I find that categorically untrue.</i><br /><br />Yep, you misunderstood, but I'm not sure how. The full sentence is:<br /><br />"In fact, at certain k levels, ADMIXTURE identifies Scandinavian HGs as the most unadmixed HGs."<br /><br />And in the very next sentence I explain further:<br /><br />"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90252174721680965642015-08-13T21:16:04.948-07:002015-08-13T21:16:04.948-07:00@ murglip
"Scandinavian HGs as the most una...@ murglip <br /><br />"Scandinavian HGs as the most unadmixed HGs"<br /><br />Unless I've musunderstood what you're getting at; I find that categorically untrue. Aside from what we already know about the archaeology of post-glacial europe, look at their mtDNA profle-which speaks of Eastern and western european contributions. This is "admixed" , right ? CroMagnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770857541840882884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37962183183690902512015-08-13T20:00:46.412-07:002015-08-13T20:00:46.412-07:00Dear Nick
Thanks for reply
Perhaps to rephrase m...Dear Nick <br />Thanks for reply <br />Perhaps to rephrase my statement : <br />I would be curious what Anatolia looked like <i>before</i> the neolithic / Pottery period. Did it have this "Basal eurasian" already, or was it merely the southeastern -most "outpost" of an essentially "WHG" population? <br /><br />I think this answer <i> is</i> achievable <br /><br />CroMagnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770857541840882884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68656242784202118882015-08-13T14:09:38.068-07:002015-08-13T14:09:38.068-07:00If you limit your Native American samples in admix...If you limit your Native American samples in admixture, they lose their own component. That's when they split up.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13876988480444711159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22890015045739208352015-08-13T12:00:30.924-07:002015-08-13T12:00:30.924-07:00Capra Internetensis, I also took note of the admix...Capra Internetensis, I also took note of the admixture dates. If I try to match it with the history, I would suggest that the proposed admixture happened when the Corded Ware related cultures / the subsequent Bronze Age cultures merged with the inland cultures which may have happened over a longer period of time. Corded ware people and the subsequent costal populations were probably like Balts Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53980179749528830762015-08-13T11:31:52.087-07:002015-08-13T11:31:52.087-07:00@Cromagnon wrote
< I don't think this wil...@Cromagnon wrote<br /><br />< I don't think this will answer the question of founding population<br />< for EEF. Without mesolithic data from anatolia, this study merely<br />< affirms that anatolia was in the path of the neolithic advance<br />< from further South east<br /><br /><br />That's kinda right but there likely will never be a definitive<br />answer. We deriveNick Patterson (Broad)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15606881879148004553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75421442513777220222015-08-13T11:31:19.512-07:002015-08-13T11:31:19.512-07:00For the sake of curiosity, I checked the admixture...For the sake of curiosity, I checked the admixture results of Anzick and Kennewick man, as they are surely free of European admixture. In the Kennewick man paper, at the upper level, Kennewick man does not show any CEU, and Anzick maybe 1%. The main components are the following: Anzick c. 35% Central American, 25% Quechua, 15% Northern Amerind, 8% Karitiana, 5% Cabecar, 5% Pima, 3%Surui. Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25317250702048062502015-08-13T11:20:56.884-07:002015-08-13T11:20:56.884-07:00@andrew
They dated the East Asian admixture in Ru...@andrew<br /><br />They dated the East Asian admixture in Russians and Finns to ~1300 and 1900 years ago, and in the previous paragraph dated the Mongolian expansion to the 13th century. So yeah, I'm pretty sure they didn't literally mean Mongols. <br /><br />There was no shortage of Asian nomads running around invading everyone in the first millennium, but I can't think of any that capra internetensishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15951755327460295070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39744856734836586932015-08-13T10:15:13.799-07:002015-08-13T10:15:13.799-07:00On second thought, after reading the body text, I ...On second thought, after reading the body text, I reach a somewhat different conclusion. While the historical context is shallow and not very well thought out, put in more as window dressing than as genuine analysis, it is also the case that if you read the body text carefully, it never actually states that Finns and Russians have a "historical record of admixture with Mongolian populationsandrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64597215329239155902015-08-13T09:57:49.524-07:002015-08-13T09:57:49.524-07:00In fairness to the authors of the paper in the OP,...In fairness to the authors of the paper in the OP, I think that it is quite likely that this is an English as a second language issue rather than a deep flaw in the paper.<br /><br />It is easy for a non-Native speaker to confuse Mongolian which is a proper ethnonym, and Mongoloid, which is a description of a phenotype, and further for a non-Native speaker to confuse the Mongoloid phenotype with andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64613656789033457102015-08-13T07:42:59.547-07:002015-08-13T07:42:59.547-07:00Kristiina,
In that Excel file Athabaskans are 68....Kristiina,<br /><br /><i>In that Excel file Athabaskans are 68.9% European, which should mean that the studied Native American groups are unmasked. In that case, I do not know how reliable the results are.</i><br /><br />Karitiana don't need to be masked, because they are unadmixed. Also, you can look at k=4 to see whether populations are 100% Amerindian or not. Populations that are 100% Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33298082409817576052015-08-13T07:39:57.479-07:002015-08-13T07:39:57.479-07:00I don't know where Reich's samples are fro...I don't know where Reich's samples are from, but I've only heard stuff about Western and Central Anatolian samples.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29084997138802636332015-08-13T07:26:57.689-07:002015-08-13T07:26:57.689-07:00@Davidski
"I've heard stuff about a good ...@Davidski<br />"I've heard stuff about a good number of Neolithic samples from Anatolia now, some from deep in Anatolia, but not eastern Anatolia. They're all basically like Barcin."<br /><br />Do you know whether any of the new Anatolian samples from Pinhasi and Reich are from SE Anatolia--Upper Euphrates/PPNB context or are they all from Central and Western Anatolia?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02272252711544391571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36678527773646816612015-08-13T07:25:48.118-07:002015-08-13T07:25:48.118-07:00In that Excel file Athabaskans are 68.9% European,...In that Excel file Athabaskans are 68.9% European, which should mean that the studied Native American groups are unmasked. In that case, I do not know how reliable the results are. <br /><br />In the admixture run of Haak et al, Ma1 seems to be c. 40% East Eurasian at K=3, but half of it seems to be ASI-related.<br /><br />Let's imagine a situation in which Ma1 is mixed between a more Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45682779332118351752015-08-13T07:15:20.997-07:002015-08-13T07:15:20.997-07:00@CroMagnon
"I dont think that how people tak...@CroMagnon<br /><br />"I dont think that how people take it.<br />The analysis of K14 showed clear links to later -including modern - europeans (unlike Oase). Moreover, what exactly his 'basalness" was was disputed by the Haak/Reich team vis-a-viz Willerslev's ."<br /><br />Ok. This is all true. And I especially have a high level of belief that if Reich publically stated Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52762461355424585562015-08-13T05:32:40.347-07:002015-08-13T05:32:40.347-07:00Kristiina,
The fact that Amerind (and Beringian p...Kristiina,<br /><br /><i>The fact that Amerind (and Beringian populations) appear only East Eurasian in admixture runs could be related to their lack of the so called Basal and Near Eastern genetic material.</i><br /><br />This is what several researchers have stated, but it makes no sense, since MA-1, Loschbour, Motala etc. all lack basal admixture, yet ADMIXTURE considers them predominantly Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19444235363314369412015-08-13T04:11:29.587-07:002015-08-13T04:11:29.587-07:00I dont think that how people take it.
The analysi...I dont think that how people take it. <br />The analysis of K14 showed clear links to later -including modern - europeans (unlike Oase). Moreover, what exactly his 'basalness" was was disputed by the Haak/Reich team vis-a-viz Willerslev's . CroMagnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770857541840882884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88072663817405075442015-08-13T04:00:02.660-07:002015-08-13T04:00:02.660-07:00"By the way, does Malta1 or Ust Ishim have an..."By the way, does Malta1 or Ust Ishim have any Basal?"<br /><br />No. But, Kostenki14 from (modern) Russia ~37,000 years ago does have it, or something similar, which is more basal than all other out of Africa modern humans.<br /><br />It seems that most people are just dismissing this as a branch that completely died off, which is probably 99.9% true. It appears that maybe several Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81310194878771063002015-08-13T02:55:58.179-07:002015-08-13T02:55:58.179-07:00The fact that Amerind (and Beringian populations) ...The fact that Amerind (and Beringian populations) appear only East Eurasian in admixture runs could be related to their lack of the so called Basal and Near Eastern genetic material. Ust Ishim who was an ancient Central Eurasian was astonishingly far from modern near Easterners and close to all other non-African populations (http://s28.postimg.org/wuj44klpp/Kostenki14_Ust_Ishim_MA1ls.png). <br />Kristiinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994105875605082112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45532982433804473432015-08-13T02:39:47.020-07:002015-08-13T02:39:47.020-07:00I don't think this will answer the question of...I don't think this will answer the question of founding population for EEF. Without mesolithic data from anatolia, this study merely affirms that anatolia was in the path of the neolithic advance from further South east CroMagnonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14770857541840882884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24294962333169477972015-08-13T02:38:20.097-07:002015-08-13T02:38:20.097-07:00Yes, it's also interesting that R.Pinhasi is a...Yes, it's also interesting that R.Pinhasi is also listed within the authors. It's great if the two teams are sharing data or even working together. The Pinhasi site has listed samples from Armenia and Caucasus from the Eneolithic, so probably it won't be long before we here from those ones too.Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-6018348548959332652015-08-13T02:24:33.539-07:002015-08-13T02:24:33.539-07:00I've heard stuff about a good number of Neolit...I've heard stuff about a good number of Neolithic samples from Anatolia now, some from deep in Anatolia, but not eastern Anatolia. They're all basically like Barcin.<br /><br />So it'll be interesting to get word of what eastern Anatolian, or perhaps even better, Armenian and Iranian, Neolithic samples look like.<br /><br />Hopefully someone's working on that even as we speak.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29407157601581332612015-08-13T02:11:52.063-07:002015-08-13T02:11:52.063-07:00Off topic: The full title of the talk about the An...Off topic: The full title of the talk about the Ancient Anatolians is:<br /><br /><strong>Genome-wide data on 34 ancient Anatolians identifies the founding population of the European Neolithic</strong>. I. Lazaridis, D. Fernandes, N. Rohland, S. Mallick, K. Stewardson, S. Alpaslan, N. Patterson, R. Pinhasi*, D. Reich*.<br /><br />So the rumours that they all look like EEF (like the Barcin sample)Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.com