tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post5575574338248116572..comments2024-03-28T17:16:03.042-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Afanasievo people may well have been proto-Tocharian speakers (Ning et al. 2019)Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-49440750919551286642019-07-31T21:10:12.167-07:002019-07-31T21:10:12.167-07:00So did R-L754 split around the Urals, with his Bro...So did R-L754 split around the Urals, with his Brother R-PH155 staying behind in Siberia ?<br /><br /> So looking at this and the previously postulated "R1b from Western Asia" it is understandable to see where the confusion originated. Turkics carrying these clads into Western Asia.<br /><br /> I always wondered why a Mammoth Hunting Tribe adapted to extreme cold, suddenly prefered to Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18725232349344018052019-07-31T11:55:10.524-07:002019-07-31T11:55:10.524-07:00@Joe Flood
"It's hard to say when the R1...@Joe Flood<br /><br /><i>"It's hard to say when the R1b would have penetrated that far east. This eastwards Uralic R1b expansion probably took place during the Sintashta period (2100 BC) mixed with majority R1a.</i><br /><br />The earliest known Siberian/Central Asian R1b is 3300 BC, sample BOT14. Also there are the Afanasievo samples that predate Sintashta and are pretty far east. Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-7788155851224605812019-07-30T22:32:02.856-07:002019-07-30T22:32:02.856-07:00Yet another paper where the Y haplogroups have bee...Yet another paper where the Y haplogroups have been mis-attributed. Is anyone at all doing quality control on this stuff?<br /><br />Running through the BAMs we find that both the R1bs are actually R-PH200 (R1b1b2) a very rare basal subclade so far found only in Turkey, Bahrain and Iraq. Presumably arriving with Turkic migrations.<br /><br />It's hard to say when the R1b would have penetratedJoe Floodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14684083205595693107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69315357187636256712019-07-28T04:56:23.323-07:002019-07-28T04:56:23.323-07:00These guys were para-Turks, not Indo-Europeans.
These guys were para-Turks, not Indo-Europeans.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-90067877201067141862019-07-28T04:42:23.686-07:002019-07-28T04:42:23.686-07:00@Open Genomes
I do not think there is much of an ...@Open Genomes<br /><br />I do not think there is much of an implication as PH155 had split a way before PIE and it is not like R1b as a whole was assumed to be IE specific. So PH155 has nothing to do with the PIE question.<br />All of these samples had Siberian (or "Siberian") ancestry that can explain the presence of this paternal line. Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57238943245414974152019-07-28T04:22:47.318-07:002019-07-28T04:22:47.318-07:00The two R1b individuals M15-1 and M012 are R1b2-P1...The two R1b individuals M15-1 and M012 are R1b2-P155 and probably R-PH200:<br /><br /><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15ecXQf2gRYNfMELt4H5lYuN5G9NXXIWTAhscqvfOPR0/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow"><b>Tianshan M15-1 and M012 Y-DNA R SNPs</b></a><br /><br /><a href="https://yfull.com/tree/R-PH155/" rel="nofollow"><b>R-PH155 on the YFull tree</b></a><br /><br />This sounds more like Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-82844796308771769952019-07-28T02:45:47.752-07:002019-07-28T02:45:47.752-07:00EastPole: https://www.academia.edu/39903804/Rapid_...EastPole: <i>https://www.academia.edu/39903804/Rapid_radiation_of_the_Inner_Indo-European_languages_an_advanced_approach_to_Indo-_European_lexicostatistics_pre-print_accepted_in_Diachronica_2020_</i><br /><br />It seems that they really do not like the way that all the conventional trees using lexicostatistics (core lexicon cognacy) reconstruct the IE tree with an early branch of Indo-Iranian Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39933483629419898782019-07-28T00:44:19.496-07:002019-07-28T00:44:19.496-07:00@Samuel Andrews
One population founded Andronovo....@Samuel Andrews<br /><br /><i>One population founded Andronovo."</i><br />That is exactly what I am saying, so your point is? They later still assimilated other groups. <br /><br /><i>The few outlier samples are immigrants from foreign populations.</i><br /><br />A claim based on nothing. If anything, the Sintashta related founders were immigrants in a considerable part of Andronovo range Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62314365643055462582019-07-28T00:20:04.207-07:002019-07-28T00:20:04.207-07:00One population founded Andronovo. The few outlier ...One population founded Andronovo. The few outlier samples are immigrants from foreign populations. Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14232218736992470892019-07-27T23:39:01.907-07:002019-07-27T23:39:01.907-07:00I could as well add Sintashta outlier group 1 to t...I could as well add Sintashta outlier group 1 to the above list.<br /><br />"sample": "RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o1:Average",<br /> "fit": 2.7319,<br /> "RUS_West_Siberia_N": 56.67,<br /> "Yamnaya_RUS_Kalmykia": 24.17,<br /> "TKM_Geoksiur_En": 19.17,<br /> "POL_Globular_Amphora": 0,<br /> "RUS_Shamanka_N": Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56481639903963781872019-07-27T22:58:36.802-07:002019-07-27T22:58:36.802-07:00Samuel Andrews
"andronovo/sintashta was actua...Samuel Andrews<br /><i>"andronovo/sintashta was actually genetically very uniform."</i><br /><br />No. The majority of the Andronovo samples belong to a rather uniform Sintashta derived line (that you remember correctly), but other populations are clearly present. Also it is safe to assume that they are underrepresented in the samples, because the studies focused on sites that are well Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67030246686013790232019-07-27T21:34:38.659-07:002019-07-27T21:34:38.659-07:00MtDNA Haplogroup H15 in Yamnaya, Britain and Shire...MtDNA Haplogroup H15 in Yamnaya, Britain and Shirenzigou...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41521511072877439982019-07-27T20:59:56.764-07:002019-07-27T20:59:56.764-07:00@Open Genomes
What does the 1240k SNP array say f...@Open Genomes<br /><br /><i>What does the 1240k SNP array say for L23, PF7562, Z2103, and L51?</i><br /><br />I don't have it yet.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80714167857791172112019-07-27T20:53:49.922-07:002019-07-27T20:53:49.922-07:00MtDNA Haplogroup H2a1 is particularly interesting....MtDNA Haplogroup H2a1 is particularly interesting. In Khvalynsk, Samara,Sredny Stog II and Eneolithic Piedmont in both R1a and R1b Males...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-63502307568188328082019-07-27T20:37:01.827-07:002019-07-27T20:37:01.827-07:00Was anyone able to successfully align the FASTQ fi...Was anyone able to successfully align the FASTQ files for the R1b1a1a2-M269s and determine if they are in any subclades? <br /><br />@David<br />What does the 1240k SNP array say for L23, PF7562, Z2103, and L51?Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86047981630321532882019-07-27T20:18:14.109-07:002019-07-27T20:18:14.109-07:00@ Davidski
Yes precisely what I think also, that...@ Davidski <br /><br />Yes precisely what I think also, that is why Yamnaya does not really fit with PIE but was rather most likely a daughter...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51321284198775570432019-07-27T19:50:35.658-07:002019-07-27T19:50:35.658-07:00@Ric
Mesolithic, Neolithic and Eneolithic steppe ...@Ric<br /><br />Mesolithic, Neolithic and Eneolithic steppe populations show a wide variety of Y-chromosome haplogroups, including I2, Q1a, R1a and R1b.<br /><br />So all of these markers may have, and probably did, exist in the closely knit PIE community. But once the break up of PIE started on the steppe, and different male clans expanded within and out of the steppe, certain Y-haplogroups Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62376118117764440502019-07-27T19:08:38.559-07:002019-07-27T19:08:38.559-07:00I get more and more the feeling that Women were th...I get more and more the feeling that Women were the glue for the formation of PIE...Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40160744901587116632019-07-27T18:55:47.619-07:002019-07-27T18:55:47.619-07:00I rather see it as Proto-Yamnaya equals Proto-Indo...I rather see it as Proto-Yamnaya equals Proto-Indo-European. Where did R1a and R1b share a Culture before the Great Devide ? Khvalynsk currently looks like it for me, unless I missed something. I still wonder how many Sisters of PIE existed before the Yamnaya expansion....Were those Piedmont Eneolithic guys Proto-Indo-European or just one of a network of Sisters ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-64927480241898787762019-07-27T18:08:50.020-07:002019-07-27T18:08:50.020-07:00Spumbery, andronovo/sintashta was actually genetic...Spumbery, andronovo/sintashta was actually genetically very uniform. Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35547819144374461572019-07-27T16:54:12.275-07:002019-07-27T16:54:12.275-07:00Yeah, there was a Beaker migration into Iberia but...Yeah, there was a Beaker migration into Iberia but not out of Iberia. Those linguists confused the two things.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50604600318656142122019-07-27T16:09:37.064-07:002019-07-27T16:09:37.064-07:00What if PIE tree was flat; as some have suggested ...What if PIE tree was flat; as some have suggested ? Spreading widely c 25-2000 BC Dragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03778401432553341122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62919427928755645692019-07-27T15:24:44.546-07:002019-07-27T15:24:44.546-07:00Here is a new paper trying to reconstruct Indo-Eur...Here is a new paper trying to reconstruct Indo-European phylogeny. They link Tocharian with Afanasievo culture, Proto-Indo-Iranian with Sintashta, Balto-Slavic-Indo-Iranian with Corded Ware and Italo-Celto-Germanic with Bell Beakers.<br />Their tree:<br /><br />https://i.postimg.cc/4dCFbLwx/screenshot-511.png<br /><br />“Chronological intervals obtained by Bayesian MCMC analysis and summarized inEastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61578174340418565032019-07-27T10:51:58.815-07:002019-07-27T10:51:58.815-07:00@Ric Hern
Setting aside that I'd have a beef ...@Ric Hern<br /><br />Setting aside that I'd have a beef with your Lithuanian analogy, it is not really the main problem (for me) how likely it is. Not very, but things with smaller probability can happen. The main problem is that this still remains a mere speculation, because the article is not convincing about the existence of a specific link. <br />(And then we do not even know if these Slumberyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05139930329199925111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73330710424592458062019-07-27T10:40:45.022-07:002019-07-27T10:40:45.022-07:00Didn't Andronovo spread over some previous Afa...Didn't Andronovo spread over some previous Afanasevo occupied territory ? Was it really so unlikely for some Afanasevo descendants to survive in relative isolation in Siberia like Lithuanians in the West...?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.com