tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post6830481565849700343..comments2024-03-18T23:36:05.218-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The healthy Kurgan pastoralistDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31921615035199807522017-06-17T13:02:46.347-07:002017-06-17T13:02:46.347-07:00Quite the nonsequitur. Tiny inbred populations are...Quite the nonsequitur. Tiny inbred populations are not going to be genetically healthy, neither are populations under no selection pressure. So there is no conflict with the idea of genetic degeneration in modern times through lack of selection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-56703761030221444102017-06-06T07:24:44.842-07:002017-06-06T07:24:44.842-07:00@Synome
This analysis has way too many caveats. W...@Synome<br /><br />This analysis has way too many caveats. We have no data on the actual health of ancient peoples before the Bronze Age migrations. To suggest that Neanderthals were unhealthy because of inbreeding can not be proven.<br /><br />Ashkenazi Jews have a quite small effective population size, but are doing quite well, and were also doing fine before modern medicine.<br /><br />Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-14435114260896237292017-06-06T07:07:17.051-07:002017-06-06T07:07:17.051-07:00@P Piranha
Thanks for correcting that. So, what a...@P Piranha<br /><br />Thanks for correcting that. So, what are your thoughts about the conclusions of this paper? If demographic effects are enough to explain the GRS distribution in Euro HG (Mota is included as well), what about the difference between the farmers and the pastoralists? What does this look like to you? Synomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06530360409931021011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53892681584971678442017-06-06T04:42:00.187-07:002017-06-06T04:42:00.187-07:00@Piranha
I know. Just pointing out that it is not...@Piranha<br /><br />I know. Just pointing out that it is not HG lifestyle that causes low effective population size.Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65174005533329419822017-06-06T04:31:14.299-07:002017-06-06T04:31:14.299-07:00Not true for European HGs though, who had effectiv...Not true for European HGs though, who had effective population sizes smaller than Amerinds in the Amazon.P Piranhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07594106242948318068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54679549657075689082017-06-06T03:59:30.945-07:002017-06-06T03:59:30.945-07:00@Piranha
"HGs are extremely genetically unhe...@Piranha<br /><br />"HGs are extremely genetically unhealthy because their effective population size is absolutely tiny, not because of any other reason."<br /><br />The Khoisan (some of which are hunter gatherers up to the present day) have had the largest effective population size of any humans alive for over 200,000 years.<br /><br />Karl_Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10388217053237956318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11477564212365803102017-06-06T00:11:59.303-07:002017-06-06T00:11:59.303-07:00Took a few more ancient results down and broke dow...Took a few more ancient results down and broke down by slightly different categories:<br /><br />http://i.imgur.com/OTYA5lm.png<br /><br />red lines are averages for groups, blue lines are differences for average against Steppe_EMBA grouping.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29668566802419135932017-06-05T22:21:08.672-07:002017-06-05T22:21:08.672-07:00@ batman
As I see it the Ice Melted over several...@ batman <br /><br />As I see it the Ice Melted over several thousand years. As the Ice receded plants that were adapted to the near Glacial environment also spread North and so did the animals that adapted to grazing on these plants. We see this with desertification also. As the environment change animals migrate to the area which is most similar to what they were used to. That is how Mammoths Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-77017187028419500752017-06-05T19:34:24.955-07:002017-06-05T19:34:24.955-07:00Ric Hern
"What do you think about the idea t...Ric Hern<br /><br />"What do you think about the idea that rivers could have served as highways to travel on during winter times when they were frozen over ?"<br /><br />dunno - so far i'd always imagined them quasi-hibernating in the winter (low metabolism) in their equivalent of an Iroquois long house (everyone bundled together to keep warm)<br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-485467207043747122017-06-05T19:15:00.407-07:002017-06-05T19:15:00.407-07:00No doubt many people here are well intentioned--ye...No doubt many people here are well intentioned--yet so much stuff here is absolutely facepalm-worthy. Adaptation to high parasitic load does not make you <i>more</i> adapted to the environment in a general sense, it makes you <i>less</i> adapted. If you have a physical and ecological environment A and another environment that is identical to A but full of parasites and transmissible diseases A&#P Piranhahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07594106242948318068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51209808605177158482017-06-05T15:22:51.225-07:002017-06-05T15:22:51.225-07:00Pseudo-questions don't need answering. "F...Pseudo-questions don't need answering. "Follow-the-ice" was never an option to survive the paleolithic. <br /><br />Whatever some clever antiquarians from Oxford may suggest - out of thin air and "common sense".batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66440201863123641582017-06-05T15:18:06.002-07:002017-06-05T15:18:06.002-07:00That's an obvious asset to any arctic communit...That's an obvious asset to any arctic community - in use already during the paleolithic/mesolithic transition.<br /><br />The first mesolithic settlers of Europe and Northern Asia made keels and skis.<br /><br />From the first they made boats and (seaworthy) ships. From the latter they made sledges. Add domestcated dogs and you may have a highway along evry river of size - all year along. <brbatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83543935085129061642017-06-05T12:11:52.172-07:002017-06-05T12:11:52.172-07:00@Grizzlor
Here's the big caveat to the "...@Grizzlor<br /><br />Here's the big caveat to the "Healthy herders" conclusion. As has been previously mentioned, the lifestyles of all three of these ancient populations are vastly different from those of the modern sedentary populations in developed countries that these genetic health studies are based on. Many genes that are clearly deleterious today are also just as clearly verySynomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06530360409931021011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8633791044453247072017-06-05T10:46:11.546-07:002017-06-05T10:46:11.546-07:00@Richard Holtman
Certainly compared to to the wiry...@Richard Holtman<br />Certainly compared to to the wiry and stunted neolithic farmers and swarthy and malnourished HG cavemen these indo-european warriors fire up the imagination of any ethnicist of the Steppe-stock. But joking aside, I'm surprised that even the HGs were more sickly than the steppe nomads. I guess the dwindling ecological niches and inbreeding among the survivors did their Grizzlorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14722675325480506521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81567500353560814482017-06-05T10:44:09.600-07:002017-06-05T10:44:09.600-07:00As I understand there were a migration from Iberia...As I understand there were a migration from Iberia to Scandinavia following the reindeer during the Warming period. <br /><br />Now why will a Southern Siberian group of people opt to move South when their main foodsource(Mammoths) moved North following the receeding Glaciers ? Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52837154921316384892017-06-05T08:18:36.808-07:002017-06-05T08:18:36.808-07:00@ Grey
What do you think about the idea that riv...@ Grey <br /><br />What do you think about the idea that rivers could have served as highways to travel on during winter times when they were frozen over ?Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27565861111631739372017-06-05T04:54:54.827-07:002017-06-05T04:54:54.827-07:00Ric Hern
yes - i think that would be a condition ...Ric Hern<br /><br />yes - i think that would be a condition on the barrier theory - it would have to be wide<br /><br />my guess is before drainage big river valleys were mostly giant swamps (which is something you could plausibly imagine could be a barrier to megafauna)<br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87752970853904875722017-06-04T21:41:33.673-07:002017-06-04T21:41:33.673-07:00@Grizzlor
Give me a fuckin break. There is no üb...@Grizzlor <br /><br />Give me a fuckin break. There is no übermensch. Stop fantasizing.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15327139149611352798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3446625787844652982017-06-04T19:01:12.800-07:002017-06-04T19:01:12.800-07:00@batman
Total bullshit as usual.@batman<br /><br />Total bullshit as usual.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83396594213746768492017-06-04T16:49:01.810-07:002017-06-04T16:49:01.810-07:00Confirming Tacitus' and Ptolemys demographic d...Confirming Tacitus' and Ptolemys demographic descritions - where the river Vistula represented a major divide between the occidental and the oriental<br /><br />In Tacitus this divide is explained in etnographic terms as "germanic people" vs. "sarmatic". In the norse vocabulary the same area was called "Venland" and "Wendland" - from Vistula to the batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33051088214190009472017-06-04T14:07:02.493-07:002017-06-04T14:07:02.493-07:00David, this is interesting:
http://rzeszow-news.p...David, this is interesting:<br /><br />http://rzeszow-news.pl/sensacyjne-odkrycie-archeologow-uniwersytetu-rzeszowskiego/<br /><br />EastPolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02385485387444006342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5156263238768461832017-06-04T12:27:29.353-07:002017-06-04T12:27:29.353-07:00For the South Asia experts here---
Two post-harap...For the South Asia experts here---<br /><br />Two post-harappan complexes in North India are of interest: Black and Red Ware culture as well as Painted Grey Ware culture(aka Kuru Kingdom). <br /><br />In purely material terms, what about them really stands out as kurgan/steppe-derived? Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66483512728115233912017-06-04T10:33:44.591-07:002017-06-04T10:33:44.591-07:00@ Grey
Yes I see what you say but I can not imagi...@ Grey<br /><br />Yes I see what you say but I can not imagine Hunters seeing a hunting opportunity on the other side of the river, letting it slip away....Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69074530436807604002017-06-04T08:45:28.653-07:002017-06-04T08:45:28.653-07:00"here is evidence that ancient pastoralists m..."here is evidence that ancient pastoralists may have had healthier genomes than hunter-gatherers and agriculturalists."<br /><br />Really? Last time I checked Pastoralism was a agricultural technique. They probably mean cereal farmers.<br /><br />Pastoralism is the branch of agriculture concerned with the raising of livestock. It is animal husbandry: the care, tending and use of animalsKurtihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00818803833239507313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48224487489384061072017-06-04T07:30:53.031-07:002017-06-04T07:30:53.031-07:00you get a lot of active vitamin A from meat, fish,...you get a lot of active vitamin A from meat, fish, dairy and less from grain, veg etc<br /><br />(grains, veg etc has the precursor form of vitamin A which has to be changed to its active form in the body - which animal products have already done for you - so that may be a factor)<br /><br />apparently vitamin A deficiency in the young stunts growth (according to the internet anyway)<br /><br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.com