tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post808157610952873080..comments2024-03-18T18:30:48.719-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: The resistance crumblesDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger82125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81802349773606829202023-02-15T07:22:02.686-08:002023-02-15T07:22:02.686-08:00I allow myself to make the following comment, as a...I allow myself to make the following comment, as an non expert, long after the fact.<br />This controversy is not so different from other ones, but perhaps older and with more sub-topics. They seem particulary vivid when our origins are concerned.<br />The frustration is understandable, but hopefully it will be gone in a few years, at least in the scientific area. It follows a process Thomas KuhnAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03862501451304245647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51954122615865684432018-10-16T14:24:57.026-07:002018-10-16T14:24:57.026-07:00It's all Pizza dough.
What if we rename R to...It's all Pizza dough. <br /><br />What if we rename R to K2b12312. Will it change the thinking. Nathan Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18392998104066477963noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74923361527285324412018-10-14T08:11:02.693-07:002018-10-14T08:11:02.693-07:00And so, while they were beastly happy about having...And so, while they were beastly happy about having been given the unexpected proof that the ancestors of the white English were blacks, they completely missed the fact that WHGs like Cheddarman have contributed only a small part of the genetic makeup of modern Brits. And that, if they really wanted to celebrate our mixed and foreign roots, they should rather praise the white Englishman's Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-361786832400532182018-10-14T07:55:28.154-07:002018-10-14T07:55:28.154-07:00And indeed it was grotesque how journalists and th...And indeed it was grotesque how journalists and the public alike seriously believed the Cheddarman's dark skin colour alone makes him a black, in the unambiguous sense of Sub-Saharan. As if there were no other peoples with dark skin, like the Onge or the Papuans, to name just a few. And as if the few SNPs responsible for skin colour were all that matters. That's maybe a consequence of theSimon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41670846984200401512018-10-14T07:24:03.074-07:002018-10-14T07:24:03.074-07:00At least, if I understand this correctly, the Indi...At least, if I understand this correctly, the Indian public appears to be interested in these topics, they seem to care about it. That's fine. Where I live, in central Europe, the average guy in the street would have difficulty in saying anything meaningful when prompted with the keyword "Indo-Europeans". They'd be baffled: "Indo-what??" And the absolutely amazing Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17809177464122534622018-10-13T10:13:02.143-07:002018-10-13T10:13:02.143-07:00Posted up before listening, but sadly upon listeni...Posted up before listening, but sadly upon listening, basically not; it's a more general lecture than I'd hoped, introducing the ideas of what adna can tell us as well as more traditionally established analysis of bones, and discussing how today's domesticates are not descended from Botai horses and the kind of dataset they're building to solve the problem (in very general terms).Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57656504565793245742018-10-13T06:44:56.187-07:002018-10-13T06:44:56.187-07:00@Matt
My French is crap. Did he actually say anyt...@Matt<br /><br />My French is crap. Did he actually say anything interesting about the origins of the modern domesticated horse clade?<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31356220126934423292018-10-13T05:28:40.663-07:002018-10-13T05:28:40.663-07:00OT: Any French speakers might be interested in lis...OT: Any French speakers might be interested in listening to this - https://twitter.com/LudovicLorlando/status/1050777979138248704 - <i>"Some of our work ancient horses now at https://youtu.be/GxdYZlHVJxM via @YouTube<br />How horses became a historical force, and how ancient DNA unlocks the mysteries underlying the origins of domesticated horses. For French speakers only though."</i>Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04517454865405705885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40951120513723293242018-10-13T04:15:23.686-07:002018-10-13T04:15:23.686-07:00@Davidski
You have made a convincing case that the...@Davidski<br />You have made a convincing case that the Swat individuals were anomalous and had extra Anatolian farmer ancestry. But in page 176 of the supplementary information, you will see that the Swat people could not be modeled well with BMAC ancestry.<br /><br />Narasimhan et al. did identify some individuals as having Steppe admixture in the BMAC samples. But these were only a few and Balajihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09561110603904765636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-54288705186333840822018-10-12T10:12:32.656-07:002018-10-12T10:12:32.656-07:00Is there any plan to try and test Stone Age sites ...Is there any plan to try and test Stone Age sites in India, or get some DNA from the South? Aniasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07886802151041914832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-57480444528658188192018-10-12T05:55:15.556-07:002018-10-12T05:55:15.556-07:00@David
I think he messed up whole thing,not just O...@David<br />I think he messed up whole thing,not just Onge.<br />He given Irulas about 50% West Eurasian ancestry.<br />I dont know if really his Irulas sample shown that much number.<br />I need to know about actual Iranian ancestry found in Dravidians like Piramalai, Yadav and Kapu.<br />I dont think the graphic he given in his supplementry material(page 166) is true.<br />www.imgur.com/a/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02962426715508375825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34986277578121636922018-10-11T14:19:36.785-07:002018-10-11T14:19:36.785-07:00@SGR Ram
Onge don't have any West Eurasian an...@SGR Ram<br /><br />Onge don't have any West Eurasian ancestry. It's a mistake and I'm sure it will be corrected.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13959664271194859442018-10-11T11:21:36.930-07:002018-10-11T11:21:36.930-07:00May be offtopic,
Did anyone notice that in Narasim...May be offtopic,<br />Did anyone notice that in Narasimhan et al supplementary details he modelled Onge with 12%-17% Iranian zagroasian ancestry?<br />How it is possible? I used to think they are one of the most isolated groupAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02962426715508375825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22876797882540880922018-10-11T07:15:28.774-07:002018-10-11T07:15:28.774-07:00mickeydodds1 said...
"He was also exceedingly...mickeydodds1 said...<br />"He was also exceedingly proud of the 'fact' - as he believed it - that 'Brahmins originated in 'Germany', and came over to India, which 'Aryans' had conquered."<br /><br />i knew dudes like that many years ago - something must have changed in the interim.<br />Greyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13398462488549380796noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80887714546943759132018-10-11T03:36:07.751-07:002018-10-11T03:36:07.751-07:00@Balaji
The South and Central Asian paper is comi...@Balaji<br /><br />The South and Central Asian paper is coming soon, its conclusions in regards to the impact of Bronze Age steppe pastoralists on South Asia won't change fundamentally, and it'll have many more ancient samples than the original that will back up these conclusions.<br /><br />That is my understanding from what I've been able to pick up from various sources.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74645665385909214892018-10-11T03:26:51.156-07:002018-10-11T03:26:51.156-07:00There has been much speculation about the reason f...There has been much speculation about the reason for the delay of the Rakhigarhi paper. But there has not been similar discussion of the fact that the Narasimhan et al. preprint in bioarXiv has not been published in a journal after more than six months. I had made several comments about this paper on the bioarXiv site and am hopeful that the authors are working on addressing them. One result fromBalajihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09561110603904765636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66434774906017687662018-10-10T23:13:10.015-07:002018-10-10T23:13:10.015-07:00@Nirjhar
Alberto is banned from this blog, so you...@Nirjhar<br /><br />Alberto is banned from this blog, so you can't promote his ramblings from another blog here. I banned him for a reason you know.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12743271610442578882018-10-09T23:12:28.344-07:002018-10-09T23:12:28.344-07:00@Ryan
If there's ANE in Iranian Neolithic sam...@Ryan<br /><br /><i>If there's ANE in Iranian Neolithic samples than how do you know R2 didn't come with the ANE?</i><br /><br />I'm not seeing any R2 in the ancient DNA northeast of Iran, so I'm assuming for now that ANE and R moved in tandem into the South Caspian region during the Paleolithic or Mesolithic from the steppe or Siberia, and R2 formed in this region before moving Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-45529677629228948862018-10-09T22:46:33.552-07:002018-10-09T22:46:33.552-07:00@David - if there's ANE in Iranian Neolithic s...@David - if there's ANE in Iranian Neolithic samples than how do you know R2 didn't come with the ANE?Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29538478752859261552018-10-09T20:50:13.800-07:002018-10-09T20:50:13.800-07:00@Ryan
There's R1b(xM269) in Bhutan, so I'...@Ryan<br /><br />There's R1b(xM269) in Bhutan, so I'm pretty sure there's some in India and Pakistan too.<br /><br />And of course there's ANE in the Neolithic Iranian samples.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-88101596305743067912018-10-09T20:31:23.395-07:002018-10-09T20:31:23.395-07:00I guess Q3 is an ok candidate?
https://bmcevolbio...I guess Q3 is an ok candidate?<br /><br />https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12862-016-0870-2Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-86629321951133082322018-10-09T20:24:14.426-07:002018-10-09T20:24:14.426-07:00@David - To my knowledge there is exactly 0 R1b(xM...@David - To my knowledge there is exactly 0 R1b(xM269) in India and Pakistan. It's all R1b-Z2103. Am I mistaken?<br /><br />Come to think of it, is there a definitive decent paper on Y-haplogroup frequencies in South Asia?<br /><br />And I'm aware of the Iran Neolithic samples... I take it there's no ANE in them?Ryanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07906194112935320590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48502170520072449642018-10-09T18:57:56.191-07:002018-10-09T18:57:56.191-07:00@Ryan
Which haplogroups (if any) would related to...@Ryan<br /><br /><i>Which haplogroups (if any) would related to the West Siberian Hunter-Gatherers in this scheme? R2?</i><br /><br />Probably mostly Q, plus various R1b(xM269) subclades, like the one associated with the Botai people.<br /><br />R2 was found in two Neolithic samples from Iran, so in South Asia it's probably a signal of that type of ancestry.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22334698434093541802018-10-09T18:35:55.609-07:002018-10-09T18:35:55.609-07:00@Samuel Andrews
I do not disagree, but we are rem...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br />I do not disagree, but we are removed from an environment where there are constant caste tensions and violence.<br /><br />These results fundamentally show one thing that cannot be averted, and that is a closer relationship to West Eurasians amongst the upper castes.<br /><br />I would hope that people could separate the two, but again, we are more happily removed. TheyAniasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16835147197875187118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8391023834412276052018-10-09T16:53:26.285-07:002018-10-09T16:53:26.285-07:00@Aniasi,
I think Indians and the world at large w...@Aniasi,<br /><br />I think Indians and the world at large will be grown ups about all this. People should know the Aryan conquest, who were probably mixed with Central Asians when they arrived, is not similar or related to recent European colonialism and white racism. People should know there's no good reason to artificially racialize this part of South Asian history. <br /><br />Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.com