tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8575590767861331276..comments2024-03-29T04:00:27.058-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Matters of geographyDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22246362671829713012017-12-22T16:21:27.946-08:002017-12-22T16:21:27.946-08:00@Anthro Survey
Anatolian Turks score ~10% more st...@Anthro Survey<br /><br /><i>Anatolian Turks score ~10% more steppe than Armenians largely for that reason.</i><br /><br />Anatolian Greeks, who are a better proxy for pre-Turkish Anatolia than Armenians are, also score higher steppe ancestry than Armenians, though I do not have the exact figures now. I would be glad to see how you got your figures though.Onur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72137381659665819532017-12-22T16:12:18.572-08:002017-12-22T16:12:18.572-08:00@Samuel Andrews
Turks are in the same large genet...@Samuel Andrews<br /><br /><i>Turks are in the same large genetic cluster as Armenians and Assyrians. Greeks are in the same large genetic cluster as Albanians and South Slavs.</i><br /><br />It is Anatolian Turks who cluster genetically with Armenians and Assyrians, not Balkan Turks since Balkan Turks cluster with other Balkan peoples. Similarly, it is Balkan Greeks who cluster with other BalkanOnur Dincerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041378853428912894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84982453119887059122017-06-28T05:59:02.828-07:002017-06-28T05:59:02.828-07:00@ Anthro
RE: North Italy - yep agree with everyth...@ Anthro<br /><br />RE: North Italy - yep agree with everything, put that way.<br /><br />RE BB: <br />One can't be 100% sure, and there hasn't been any consensus although the from the West hypothesis certainly prevails to this day among archaeologists.<br /><br />It's hard to say anything definitive because it steppe contact began as Single Grave groups arrived to the the Rhine Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18448697143289104082017-06-28T01:07:24.280-07:002017-06-28T01:07:24.280-07:00@Rob:
"Yes we could bet that northern Italy w...@Rob:<br />"Yes we could bet that northern Italy was more steppic than *all of Iberia* was; but that's sort of comparing apples with oranges because of the differential areas we are comparing."<br /><br />This would indeed be the case if I was comparing Iberia to Italy as a whole, but since Iberia and N.Italy exhibit and (likely exhibited) comparable homogeneity, amongst people as Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80301413393992224682017-06-28T00:49:15.702-07:002017-06-28T00:49:15.702-07:00@ AnthroS
Yes we could bet that northern Italy wa...@ AnthroS<br /><br />Yes we could bet that northern Italy was more steppic than *all of Iberia* was; but that's sort of comparing apples with oranges because of the differential areas we are comparing. <br /><br />It also depends on one's (often arbitrary) definition of what an "I.E. culture" is, and which model of IE'zation one backs. <br /><br />"That has to be Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-41585922855783169512017-06-27T23:48:54.933-07:002017-06-27T23:48:54.933-07:00@Max:
Nothing seems to be pointing in that directi...@Max:<br />Nothing seems to be pointing in that direction---genomically or in terms of symbolic&material culture. In short, peri-Zagros areas like Elam were urbanized, densely populated and quite advanced. As such, there was incredible cultural continuity after Persians arrived and no reason to believe in a major replacement. Ask Kurti.<br /><br />If you're talking about areas EAST of theAnthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-19592668031960576372017-06-27T23:21:57.291-07:002017-06-27T23:21:57.291-07:00Additionally @Ryan:
Urnfields were confined to Ca...Additionally @Ryan:<br /><br />Urnfields were confined to Catalonia, for the most part. <br /><br />Lusitanic's connection to Italo-Celtic is disputed. <br /><br />I never suggested that the first major IE languages in Italy were Italic or proper Celtic. Why forget about Ligurian? Or the North Picene language? <br /><br />Also, if you believe BBs coming from C. Europe spoke Vasconic, do you Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32907002470228741112017-06-27T23:10:41.232-07:002017-06-27T23:10:41.232-07:00@Rob
The Polada culture occupies a time block a f...@Rob<br /><br />The Polada culture occupies a time block a full millennium earlier than confidently attested-to IE-speaking cultures in Iberia It's also not that far, temporally, from the Parma Bell Beaker,btw.<br /><br />"Secondly, amidst the overall north Italian landscape, BB users co-existed with several other non-BB groups, before disappearing with "sharp discontinuity' Anthro Surveyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07686104871694563174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-788581346004354552017-06-27T17:59:46.341-07:002017-06-27T17:59:46.341-07:00@Gökhan
If eastern schitians are not proto-turks ...@Gökhan<br /><br /><i>If eastern schitians are not proto-turks what else proto-turks?</i><br /><br />There are various theories about Turkic origins, but I haven't seen any reliable sources claiming that eastern Scythians were Turkic.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59336257518620604962017-06-27T16:46:45.739-07:002017-06-27T16:46:45.739-07:00@AnthroSurvey
"Iranian plateau barely has ste...@AnthroSurvey<br />"Iranian plateau barely has steppe ancestry to this day---something on the order of 10-15%."<br /><br />Are you saying there was only small-scale steppe migration to Iranian plateau? Steppe admixture in ancient Iran could have been high once but decreased over time, considering their neighbors eastern Iranics in Central Asia and Indo-Aryans in South Asia have high MaxThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12920295419805648337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-35995593213562394282017-06-27T16:33:50.488-07:002017-06-27T16:33:50.488-07:00Rob,
Sure. The day you quit daydreaming.Rob,<br /><br />Sure. The day you quit daydreaming.batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15857616844198268162017-06-27T16:10:26.382-07:002017-06-27T16:10:26.382-07:00There are 4 kinds of Scythians. Turks descended fr...There are 4 kinds of Scythians. Turks descended from Scythians mixed with Altaic mongoloids, also known as "East Scythians" or "Sakah"/"Sakai".<br />If genetics is not enough, the Turkic religion, Tengrism, has Indo-European roots.<br /><br />Read this paper for more:<br />"Ancestry and demography and descendants of Iron Age nomads of the Eurasian Steppe"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21970770357268508772017-06-27T15:26:50.505-07:002017-06-27T15:26:50.505-07:00@Gökhan
Proto Turks were probably east Asian rela...@Gökhan<br /><br />Proto Turks were probably east Asian related. Scythians have the bulk of evidence pointing to them being Iranian speakers. While Scythians may have been involved in the ethnogenesis of the Turks as we know them today, that's probably not where the proto Turkic language came from.Synomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06530360409931021011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37062123896536233552017-06-27T14:55:36.468-07:002017-06-27T14:55:36.468-07:00And about scithians. If eastern schitians are not ...And about scithians. If eastern schitians are not proto-turks what else proto-turks? What kind of genetic contribution you looking for to find proto-turks? Half euroasian and half west euroasian eastern schitians are best candidate for proto-turk and unfortunatly we can not know which language they were speak by looking on thier genetics.Gökhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00080085717667196486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28985550484867621092017-06-27T14:47:26.859-07:002017-06-27T14:47:26.859-07:00Quit spamming BatmanQuit spamming BatmanRobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87732044427683204662017-06-27T14:46:23.339-07:002017-06-27T14:46:23.339-07:00Bordering continents according to modern concepts ...Bordering continents according to modern concepts (like europe) based on genetic impact is very dangerous. Otherwise we find ourselves ignoring time and place... Modern europe have got its own genetics and mixed with steppes, near east and partialy north african genetics since paleothic ages. That would not change the borders of continents but borders in our minds which hlp us to understand theGökhanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00080085717667196486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-74583121400729100562017-06-27T14:17:19.611-07:002017-06-27T14:17:19.611-07:00# "The reconstruction of the ice age ecology ...# "The reconstruction of the ice age ecology is still ongoing but when people model Iranian or Caucasian HG's as part ANE that makes somehow sense as there was a corridor between Lake Baikal and the South Caspian."<br /><br /><br />There were "corridors" inbetween glaciers and m,ountain-ranges all over Eurasia during the middle and late Paleolithic. As far as we know therebatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-34184012774468006032017-06-27T14:16:14.053-07:002017-06-27T14:16:14.053-07:00Epoch2013,
"During the ice age there were hu...Epoch2013,<br /><br />"During the ice age there were huge lakes in Siberia and huge polar deserts that functioned as barriers."<br /><br />Besides wide parts of northern Russia/Khazakstan the glaciers once covered most of the Himalayas as well as the mountainranges to the west - all along the 45th paralell, from Karakorum to the highlands of Anatolia, Balkan, Appenines, Central Massif batmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48415160965057379272017-06-27T14:13:54.915-07:002017-06-27T14:13:54.915-07:00@RAGERAGE
Doesn't matter Ammianus was familia...@RAGERAGE<br /><br />Doesn't matter Ammianus was familiar with both Parthians and Persians, and he used Persians in that sentence indicating that they are similar. And yes the Parthians spoke a language similar to Persian with Eastern Iranian influience. Are you going to tell me that Scythians were Turks next?<br /><br /><br />@EastPole<br /><br />I thought Sarmatism was dead.<br /><br />>Varahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06034396078823795105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69969223389818204512017-06-27T14:08:35.346-07:002017-06-27T14:08:35.346-07:00David Anthony in "The Horse, the Wheel, Cultu...David Anthony in "The Horse, the Wheel, Culture and Language" supported this dividing line based upon archaeological cultures. <br /><br />The known historical forces that break down this division are basically the Turkic and then Mongolia migrations from East to West, and the earlier Tocharian migration from West to East, and Russian expansion from West to East in the last 500 years orandrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29318613288385568552017-06-27T13:27:44.134-07:002017-06-27T13:27:44.134-07:00@Vara
It means "Parthians" who were orig...@Vara<br />It means "Parthians" who were originally of Scythian extraction, are very skilful in war. Not Persians. Also the quotation is about Alans.<br /><br />"Thus the Halani ... the young men grow up in the habit of riding from their earliest boyhood and regard it as contemptible to go on foot; and by various forms of training they are all skilled warriors. From the same causesBulan Goldsteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08383112370502114428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27492847952913190532017-06-27T11:57:26.458-07:002017-06-27T11:57:26.458-07:00While I accept the "what is Europe", one...While I accept the "what is Europe", one needs to also determine Europe's neighbours. What is the caucasus, Anatolia or what is east of Europe called.<br /><br />Does the cuacasus in this map indicated from europe to the modern border of Syria and Iraq ?<br />Where does Anatolia begin and end?<br /><br />Without answering these questions then one can use a scenario where Gasparhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08803562810086047583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80452902910307360202017-06-27T11:25:39.413-07:002017-06-27T11:25:39.413-07:00@Mark B
During the ice age there were huge lakes ...@Mark B<br /><br />During the ice age there were huge lakes in Siberia and huge polar deserts that functioned as barriers. The reconstruction of the ice age ecology is still ongoing but when people model Iranian or Caucasian HG's as part ANE that makes somehow sense as there was a corridor between Lake Baikal and the South Caspian. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-91555586250918814442017-06-27T11:16:10.107-07:002017-06-27T11:16:10.107-07:00I just read someone claim that if a person were wa...I just read someone claim that if a person were walking from west to east through 'the Urals,' he might easily ask where the mountains were. The suggestion was that the impression that people have of the Urals being any kind of barrier to population movement was wrong. Never having been there, I can't say for sure. Mark B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03524735496130204611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58432211573461540602017-06-27T10:27:31.668-07:002017-06-27T10:27:31.668-07:00Historically Samara was a meeting-spot of travelle...Historically Samara was a meeting-spot of travellets and traders, as this region is one of the very oldest crossroads of Eurasia - connecting the Ladoga-Volga waterway to the Caspian and the Aral seas - and the first silk- and spoce-routes to India and China - as well as the southern routes towards the Black Sea and the Med, along the Tana (slavic: 'Don'). <br /><br />The Uralic languagesbatmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00810638398479713844noreply@blogger.com