tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post8906557945912556102..comments2024-03-19T04:18:48.805-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: How did steppe ancestry spread into the Biblical-era Levant?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger189125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83380532154388996482019-07-25T00:00:25.445-07:002019-07-25T00:00:25.445-07:00@lingo
Obviously, the question was about Biblical...@lingo<br /><br />Obviously, the question was about Biblical-era Levant, not Crusader-era Levant.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24835161908013989542019-07-24T23:47:30.165-07:002019-07-24T23:47:30.165-07:00Regarding the steppe ancestry in Palastines: Did Y...Regarding the steppe ancestry in Palastines: Did You ever hear of the Crusades? The crusaders must not necessarily all have been killed. lingoarchlingohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18205642607246740258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-39229542756375568062019-07-14T09:33:14.702-07:002019-07-14T09:33:14.702-07:00Regarding the Phelessaioi of Italy that I mentione...Regarding the Phelessaioi of Italy that I mentioned, it's also interesting that the town Ascoli Piceno, on the southern border of the Marche region of Italy, the Roman Asculum, was called "Askoulon" by the ancient Greeks - who have called Ashkelon "Askalon". A mere coincidence?<br /><br />Well, maybe! Because the name Ashkelon doesn't come from the Philistines, but Simon_Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454497745874406294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-23063003793752950442019-07-12T03:16:01.539-07:002019-07-12T03:16:01.539-07:00Leron
I also mentioned South West Balkanes, which...Leron<br /><br />I also mentioned South West Balkanes, which would be in the neighborhood of Mycenean world. If Philistines are from that region then they definitely didn't skip Greece because they were using Helladic pottery, architecture. As for traces. Did they left genetic traces in Levant? No. But probably if we have more samples from Iron Age Greece we would have different ideas. Aramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05717857095182763668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-17142751217731175182019-07-12T03:14:47.595-07:002019-07-12T03:14:47.595-07:00@PF-"Well, Iran_Chl itself has Levant_N ances...@PF-"Well, Iran_Chl itself has Levant_N ancestry, so Sam was correct when he said that Levant_Chl is still predominantly derived from Levant_N."<br /><br />There are Levant samples from the Natufian, PPNA and PPNB. The paternal ancestry of Levant Chalcolithic is found beginning in PPNB, and before this(Natufian, PPNA) the Natufian paternal ancestry is dominant in the region. And it is Suyindikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03625190596568601709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-81481193965409621272019-07-11T17:08:08.509-07:002019-07-11T17:08:08.509-07:00@Suyindik @Samuel
Well, Iran_Chl itself has Levan...@Suyindik @Samuel<br /><br />Well, Iran_Chl itself has Levant_N ancestry, so Sam was correct when he said that Levant_Chl is still predominantly derived from Levant_N. <br /><br />[1] "distance%=3.1608"<br /><br /> Levant_ChL<br /><br />Levant_PPNB,89.4<br />IRN_Seh_Gabi_C,9.8<br />CHG,0.8<br /><br /><br />1] "distance%=3.4278"<br /><br /> Levant_ChL<br /><br />Levant_PPNB,PFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13780789381709373839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61075927713148818862019-07-11T16:59:51.615-07:002019-07-11T16:59:51.615-07:00@David, that Samaritan is 149533 in Global25.@David, that Samaritan is <b>149533</b> in Global25.Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58871571552057836522019-07-11T16:50:20.151-07:002019-07-11T16:50:20.151-07:00@David
Gedmatch comparison of ASH068 (European I...@David <br /><br /><a href="http://open-genomes.org/genomes/Feldman%20(2019)%20Philistines/Gedmatch%20ASH068%20(European%20Philistine)%20vs.%20Samaritan.png" rel="nofollow"><b>Gedmatch comparison of ASH068 (European Iron Age 1 Philistine) vs. an unadmixed Samaritan NZ8875603</b></a><br /><br />According to my ASH068 has at least 3% Kubano-Tersk Steppe. So does this Samaritan, who is in Global25, Open Genomeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207443325849433636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-3350889413972190072019-07-11T13:04:04.889-07:002019-07-11T13:04:04.889-07:00"And the correct ancestry frequencies of the ..."And the correct ancestry frequencies of the Chalcolithic Peqi'in population is as following:<br /><br />Levant_N (57%)<br />Anatolia_N (26%)<br />Iran_ChL (17%)"<br /><br />Levant_N was apparently already 1/3 Anatolian_N, and Iran_ChL also appears to have had a significant amount of Anatolia_N:<br /><br />"Among first farmers, those of the Levant trace ~2/3 of their ancestry Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17386123430230365251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40763639573571698582019-07-11T07:36:32.213-07:002019-07-11T07:36:32.213-07:00Andrzej: "So what you, @FrankN are saying is ...Andrzej: "So what you, @FrankN are saying is thst the Ubaidians and Halafians were Hurrian speakers?"<br /><br />See my comment above to Sam. More specifically:<br /><br />a) While Akkadian is commonly assumed to have been a later entrant, Levantine colonisers speaking some form of (para-)proto-semitic might have been from the outset involved in settling Mesopotamia.<br /><br />b) I am FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53219228034752101142019-07-11T07:20:29.042-07:002019-07-11T07:20:29.042-07:00Epoch:
I have discussed the issue here:
https://a...Epoch:<br /><br />I have discussed the issue here:<br />https://adnaera.com/2018/12/10/how-did-chg-get-into-steppe_emba-part-1-lgm-to-early-holocene/<br /><br />From there, you can also take the links. Scymczak 2002 illustrates the general trail of pressure knapping from E. Asia into Europe, with an East Caspian split into a "southern" (Iran_Neo-> PPN Anatolia-> EEF) and a "FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61484404436037361132019-07-11T06:50:34.723-07:002019-07-11T06:50:34.723-07:00@Andrzejewski-"So Iran_N people (later on to ...@Andrzejewski-"So Iran_N people (later on to mix with Natufians to form Levant_N on 50:50 basis) originally spoke Elamite, Dravidian or BMAC language?"<br /><br />Its very much probably that the Elamite, Dravidian, BMAC, Maykop languages have their origin in Neolithic Mesopotamia just like the languages of the Sumerians, Ubaid, Halaf, Hassuna and Jarmo.Suyindikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03625190596568601709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-65243029505749857442019-07-11T06:43:56.788-07:002019-07-11T06:43:56.788-07:00@FrankN
"Of course they do! After the Younge...@FrankN<br /><br />"<i>Of course they do! After the Younger Dryas, the upper/middle Volga basin was re-populated from both the West and the East. There are a number of good publications about it, e.g. by Hartz e.a.. </i>"<br /><br />Got any links?epochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08369114970416550997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-43777411659303687922019-07-11T06:43:40.013-07:002019-07-11T06:43:40.013-07:00@Samuel Andrews-"The Chalcolithic samples fro...@Samuel Andrews-"The Chalcolithic samples from 5th millenium bc Israel had only a little bit of ancestry from from Iran/Iraq. 13% in total. 87% of their ancestry was from Levant Neolithic aka was native to the region.<br />Bronze age samples from 3rd millenium bc from Levant show more Iran/Iraq ancestry. About 30-40% of their ancestry was from Iran/Iraq and 60-70% was native to Levant. "Suyindikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03625190596568601709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-33853680209062487432019-07-11T05:38:53.059-07:002019-07-11T05:38:53.059-07:00Ebizur: Thx for the correction. I had taken the Ja...Ebizur: Thx for the correction. I had taken the Japanese example straight from Starostin's text, without further checking.<br /><br />So, Jap. <i>makana</i> and derivatives seem to semantically resemble German <i>(be-)wirten, Wirt</i>: It originally meant care-taking/taker, still present in constructions such as <i>Wirt-schaft</i> "economy, enterprise", <i>Land-wirt</i> "farmerFrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-67999684384194998822019-07-11T02:29:13.711-07:002019-07-11T02:29:13.711-07:00FrankN wrote,
" Proto-Japanese * maka-nap &#...FrankN wrote,<br /><br />" Proto-Japanese * maka-nap 'to feed'..."<br /><br />There is no such word. The word that actually does exist is the following:<br /><br /><br />まかな・う〔まかなふ〕【賄う】の意味<br />Meaning of <i>makana-u</i> (Classical Japanese <i>makanaf-u</i>) 【賄う】<br /><br />出典:デジタル大辞泉(小学館)<br />Source: Digital Daijisen (Shougakukan)<br /><br />[動ワ五(ハ四)] [verb with WA five-step (Ebizurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16925110639823856429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-22346847586063806312019-07-10T23:23:58.655-07:002019-07-10T23:23:58.655-07:00Interesting read below.
Sea Peoples of the Northe...Interesting read below.<br /><br />Sea Peoples of the Northern Levant? Aegean-Style Pottery from Early Iron Age Tell Tayinat (REVIEW)<br />American Journal of Archaeology 123(3), 2019<br /><br />https://www.ajaonline.org/book-review/3895<br /><br /><br />In conclusion, "... the earliest Iron I occupation at Tell Tayinat most likely consisted of a combination of immigrants from around the Alexandroshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17367338366334463624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89220004256725074592019-07-10T21:42:31.396-07:002019-07-10T21:42:31.396-07:00Thus the similarities between Chukotko-Kamachkadal...Thus the similarities between Chukotko-Kamachkadal language to pie may stem from an influence of the latter on the former, due to “magadan ancestry”?Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36509532880438363622019-07-10T21:38:14.139-07:002019-07-10T21:38:14.139-07:00Narasimhan 2018 debunked and discredited any trace...Narasimhan 2018 debunked and discredited any trace of BMAC (or Botai for that matter) on extant South Asian populations. So the idea that Andronovo acquired their religious ideas and terminology from BMAC had been relegated to the trash bin of history Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-87208315282784671042019-07-10T21:34:24.281-07:002019-07-10T21:34:24.281-07:00PCA, not PCS :)PCA, not PCS :)Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69191018015156790762019-07-10T21:33:46.935-07:002019-07-10T21:33:46.935-07:00Then maybe PIEs are not an admixture of CHG (MA1) ...Then maybe PIEs are not an admixture of CHG (MA1) and EHG (AG3) but a separate, distinct Yana-derived population but the PCS mistakenly puts it at an exact distance between EHG and CHG whereas PIEs May be just Yana + some EEF (15% Anatolian)?Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75010872598370106182019-07-10T21:27:22.050-07:002019-07-10T21:27:22.050-07:00So what you, @FrankN are saying is thst the Ubaidi...So what you, @FrankN are saying is thst the Ubaidians and Halafians were Hurrian speakers?Andrzejewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16348054679275572956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55637379798120234882019-07-10T19:17:17.580-07:002019-07-10T19:17:17.580-07:00@Jerry
Do you find his criticism legitimate?
Not...@Jerry<br /><br /><i>Do you find his criticism legitimate?</i><br /><br />Not based on that tweet, because there are many different ways to analyze genetic data and when they all basically correlate to show one and the same thing then the result can't be questioned.<br /><br />Genetic maps (PCA) are just one type of analysis and mostly for visuals anyway. There's no point obsessing about Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-29957188735618706682019-07-10T19:04:58.192-07:002019-07-10T19:04:58.192-07:00@Davidski
I've noticed that Taleb has recentl...@Davidski<br /><br />I've noticed that Taleb has recently started to become interested in genetic archeology. Do you find his criticism legitimate? <br /><br />https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1148599452053192709Jerryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08307393817222172448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27401285173792741252019-07-10T17:10:27.766-07:002019-07-10T17:10:27.766-07:00Juan Riveira:
" EHG and similar HGs (all ANE-...Juan Riveira:<br />" EHG and similar HGs (all ANE-admixed european and west siberian HGs) mostly choose AG3 over MA1 ".<br /><br />Of course they do! After the Younger Dryas, the upper/middle Volga basin was re-populated from both the West and the East. There are a number of good publications about it, e.g. by Hartz e.a.. The Siberian input was "bullet-shaped" pressure FrankNhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292462554916779884noreply@blogger.com