tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post9158779587211609653..comments2024-03-18T23:36:05.218-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: R1a-M417 from Eneolithic Ukraine!!!11Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger222125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-5344018987044715872023-08-02T08:18:16.859-07:002023-08-02T08:18:16.859-07:00We don't believe your western narratives .we b...We don't believe your western narratives .we believe our world views and just wait and watch in the future jaya prasadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14564202459166979661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-69179866774097637392017-10-02T09:55:55.557-07:002017-10-02T09:55:55.557-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595025984675876037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24361206558370223782017-09-30T12:11:19.757-07:002017-09-30T12:11:19.757-07:00Widzę w arkusz I2399 (R1b-Z2103).
Można z tych da...Widzę w arkusz I2399 (R1b-Z2103).<br />Można z tych danych które Pan posiada wydobyć informacje czy to przodek CTS9219 ?<br />Z góry dziękuje.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15181598774052717772017-09-26T15:51:14.548-07:002017-09-26T15:51:14.548-07:00A while back someone posted a link about an Archae...A while back someone posted a link about an Archaeological paper which shows that Sredny Stog spread into Khvalynsk territory. Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28987819314205819892017-09-26T11:42:39.895-07:002017-09-26T11:42:39.895-07:00@Davidski,
"There's nothing in those ance...@Davidski,<br />"There's nothing in those ancestry proportions that you posted that prevents the formation of a Corded Ware-like population at Dereivka during the Eneolithic."<br /><br />To me the R1a M417 guy looks like a foreigner from further east. Sredny Stog and Eneolithic Ukraine in general seems to have been overwhelmingly descended from earlier Ukraine hunter gatherers who Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-51863821007149155412017-09-26T09:15:04.798-07:002017-09-26T09:15:04.798-07:00@David
"ASI is not a modern construct, it'...@David<br />"ASI is not a modern construct, it's an ancient construct dating back to at least the Mesolithic in South Asia."<br /><br />ASI is not from ancient samples neither has it been found in pure form. It is a construct based on MODERN component in South Asia is not shared outside in wider Eurasia. So by definition and by a-priori assumption it isolates the portion that is notpostneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66119221150087443862017-09-26T03:59:51.234-07:002017-09-26T03:59:51.234-07:00OK, yes, this is the theory of everyone except me ...OK, yes, this is the theory of everyone except me and also Giacomo Devoto who thought that IE languages formed in central Europe etc etc<br /><br />I won't believe that R1b1 wasn't in Italy when I get the aDNA of the Tyrrhenian Italy from 12000 to 4000 years ago.Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47955223038833762972017-09-26T03:39:04.580-07:002017-09-26T03:39:04.580-07:00@Gioiello
But the Yamnaya component arrived in a ...@Gioiello<br /><br />But the Yamnaya component arrived in a big way in Western Europe 5,000 years ago. It wasn't there before that time. And there was no such migration from Italy to the steppes.<br /><br />So no matter what you think about the R1b subclades of Western Europeans and Yamnaya, it looks like Indo-European languages were introduced from the steppe to Western Europe.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-24855625773645793122017-09-26T03:30:48.908-07:002017-09-26T03:30:48.908-07:00@ Davidski
"@Gioiello
What you just said ...@ Davidski <br /><br />"@Gioiello<br /><br />What you just said has nothing to do with the Yamnaya component". <br /><br />But it has to do with the origin of R1b1 and subclades, and also with the Indo-European languages. You know that I think that from Samara expanded only the satem ones.<br />Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25516861381958202142017-09-26T03:23:33.561-07:002017-09-26T03:23:33.561-07:00@Gioiello
What you just said has nothing to do wi...@Gioiello<br /><br />What you just said has nothing to do with the Yamnaya component.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-79886307114311833102017-09-26T03:13:54.124-07:002017-09-26T03:13:54.124-07:00@ Rob
“Yes I agree, the genetic component which ...@ Rob <br /><br />“Yes I agree, the genetic component which formed / appeared (?) in the steppe c 4000BC (=before Yamnaya) can be linked to the dispersal of IE into Europe”<br /><br />6000 years ago is the date of separation of the survived subclades of R-L23 (included my R-L23-Z2110-FGC24408) as to YFull, even though I think that those dates are underestimated for at least an 1.17 factor, and Gioiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13578860964923773647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-32263484882384573052017-09-26T02:57:52.495-07:002017-09-26T02:57:52.495-07:00Not only Europe. Definitely also South Asia and pr...Not only Europe. Definitely also South Asia and probably Armenia.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-47564805502140629172017-09-26T02:49:35.786-07:002017-09-26T02:49:35.786-07:00Yes I agree, the genetic component which formed / ...Yes I agree, the genetic component which formed / appeared (?) in the steppe c 4000BC (=before Yamnaya) can be linked to the dispersal of IE into Europe Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84490062554273145012017-09-26T02:38:36.633-07:002017-09-26T02:38:36.633-07:00Well, the Sredny Stog M417 guy is very similar to ...Well, the Sredny Stog M417 guy is very similar to Yamnaya, and considering that some early Corded Ware look basically 100% Yamnaya, I wouldn't argue now that associating the "Yamnaya" genetic component with PIE was a bad idea.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-72410215226415649482017-09-26T02:30:21.773-07:002017-09-26T02:30:21.773-07:00@ dave
I certainly remember my brilliant deductio...@ dave<br /><br />I certainly remember my brilliant deductions on it "I think that the north & western Black Sea areas will be more complex and diverse than the Samara Yamnaya samples. When we get aDNA from the Black Sea countries and further up in eastern Europe at good resolution, we'll be able to come up with final conclusions, fine-tunings and modifications."Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-59223792928712063872017-09-26T02:13:58.584-07:002017-09-26T02:13:58.584-07:00You guys remember this post from almost two years ...You guys remember this post from almost two years ago?<br /><br /><i>It looks like Sredny Stog was the early vector for the spread of both Anatolian Neolithic and Caucasus hunter-gatherer (CHG) admixture onto the steppe, from the west and east, respectively.</i><br /><br />http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2015/12/mixed-marriages-on-early-eneolithic.htmlDavidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53204147038098748542017-09-26T00:39:48.989-07:002017-09-26T00:39:48.989-07:00@alberto
On the one hand the Latvia_MN2 sample di...@alberto<br /><br />On the one hand the Latvia_MN2 sample did expand at roughly the right time. On the other is the short time frame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-40389566648447697442017-09-26T00:28:17.052-07:002017-09-26T00:28:17.052-07:00@Alberto
Yes, the timeframe is short. The Latvia_...@Alberto<br /><br />Yes, the timeframe is short. The Latvia_MN2 sample was 6,179–5,750 cal BP. You certainly have a point there. Still, R1a was in EHG north of Ukraine. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-61756198752724115072017-09-25T22:56:49.880-07:002017-09-25T22:56:49.880-07:00ASI is not a modern construct, it's an ancient...ASI is not a modern construct, it's an ancient construct dating back to at least the Mesolithic in South Asia.<br /><br />And Reich hasn't hinted about any Eneolithic M417 samples from east of Yamnaya. What he said was that the steppe admixture in South Asia was like Yamnaya not like Andronovo.Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-85567460927758412092017-09-25T21:12:08.812-07:002017-09-25T21:12:08.812-07:00@Foy
"Yes, so it's important that the ea...@Foy<br /><br />"Yes, so it's important that the earliest known M417 has no central or south Asian ancestry in it's aDNA. That tells us something."<br /><br />No it just tells us that the earliest M417 does not have a modern construct called ASI. We have no idea how far the so called Steppe was spread during the eneolithic. There are no samples from central asia or other places.postneohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09364121752386612217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89558854974274330162017-09-25T17:49:16.031-07:002017-09-25T17:49:16.031-07:00I see that CWC Germany & Srubna Culture cluste...I see that CWC Germany & Srubna Culture cluster together according to the 671 Extended Data Figures graph. There are 3 mtDNA H6a1a's obtained from ancient samples to date: Corded Ware Culture Esperstedt Germany, Srubna Culture Samara Russia & Bell Beaker Culture Netherlands.jvhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12283765275775165180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26279282657852399722017-09-25T10:27:17.555-07:002017-09-25T10:27:17.555-07:00@ Alberto
Speaking of the PCA, it does seem that ...@ Alberto<br /><br />Speaking of the PCA, it does seem that the (rather marked) shift from Ukraine Meso-Neo samples toward Ukraine Yamnanaya is in the CHG/ Iran direction (without saying that they actually came from Iran). Yet that female outlier shows pull toward something in between Anatolia Bronze Age & CHG. This does suggest a path through the Caucasus, at least for her.Robhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07166839601638241857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48015148053672320952017-09-25T09:19:19.885-07:002017-09-25T09:19:19.885-07:00@epoch2013
Look at the chart in this post. There ...@epoch2013<br /><br />Look at the chart in this post. There are 5 Latvia_MN samples. 2 are like the previous population, another 2 are EHG and 1 is intermediate. I wouldn't call that a replacement. With these samples, we can talk about some EHGs moving to the east Baltic and co-habitating there with the local HGs, and to some degree mixing.<br /><br />So firstly that replacement you put as Albertohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10924243765876609481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-31180205612310890682017-09-25T06:52:43.235-07:002017-09-25T06:52:43.235-07:00... and the other only H15 we have is SHulaveri (5...... and the other only H15 we have is SHulaveri (5000bc) and Yamnaya Ukraine (by 3500bc)<br />Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-27086931851265442017-09-25T06:47:57.743-07:002017-09-25T06:47:57.743-07:00@Alberto
Similar things in Latvia with regards t...@Alberto<br /><br /><br />Similar things in Latvia with regards to EHG taking place in former WHG territory, I am not suggesting the formation of Yamnaya took place in Latvia. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com