tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post9208900820918168680..comments2024-03-18T18:30:48.719-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: How should we interpret the movements of people throughout Bronze Age Europe?Davidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger98125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-8875562138802683652018-12-06T01:04:26.503-08:002018-12-06T01:04:26.503-08:00@An idiot: Concerning phenotypes, the same is true...@An idiot: Concerning phenotypes, the same is true as for yDNA. You have to look at the phenotypes which were dominant at the time in question. If you do so, there is no problem with the ancestral regional phenotypes and Corded Ware, if you include some selection into the equation.<br />Bell Beakers on the other hand are much more of a mystery in this respect, as in all the others. Their main zardoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17818491540055232430noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-20032370626989416632018-12-04T12:39:13.652-08:002018-12-04T12:39:13.652-08:00@Zarzian
At the onset of the Iron Age, after c. 1...@Zarzian<br /><br /><i>At the onset of the Iron Age, after c. 1200 BC, Iran was a place of major social transformation. After the collapse of the Bronze Age urban civilisations, the land was inhabited mainly by groups of mobile pastoralists that gradually transitioned from tribal organisation into loose federations, before finally developing into the Median and Persian early states (Potts 2014).<Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-15648685161763852152018-12-04T12:23:39.500-08:002018-12-04T12:23:39.500-08:00Sorry I meant *how can weSorry I meant *how can weZarzianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10537038108910739428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-50202939892857335582018-12-04T10:03:59.326-08:002018-12-04T10:03:59.326-08:00Hi Davidski,
The early Iranic speaker in your blo...Hi Davidski,<br /><br />The early Iranic speaker in your blog post <a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/07/an-early-iranian-obviously.html?m=1" rel="nofollow">An early Iranian, obviously </a>, hoe can he explain Western Iranians such as the Persians.Zarzianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10537038108910739428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-84358813174048698012018-12-04T07:50:38.372-08:002018-12-04T07:50:38.372-08:00@Bob Floy
“They’d probably just be almost identi...@Bob Floy <br /><br />“They’d probably just be almost identical to Sintashta and carrying z93, anyway.”<br /><br />Still a net loss IMO, it would have solved a genetic puzzle and maybe we would have a few surprises here and there. We can only ever guess about these surprises though...Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17718136580023709390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-48794973127734431732018-12-04T01:03:32.389-08:002018-12-04T01:03:32.389-08:00They'd probably just be almost identical to Si...They'd probably just be almost identical to Sintashta and carrying z93, anyway.Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-37137137734737364862018-12-04T00:53:45.740-08:002018-12-04T00:53:45.740-08:00Seems like there wasn't enough DNA in the rema...Seems like there wasn't enough DNA in the remains. That happens a lot.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55412570284344248992018-12-04T00:47:54.872-08:002018-12-04T00:47:54.872-08:00Weren't we supposed to have Abashevo genomes t...Weren't we supposed to have Abashevo genomes two or three years ago? Anyone know what happened with that?Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-11122728937110854842018-12-04T00:08:27.787-08:002018-12-04T00:08:27.787-08:00@Toby_P
Those GAC samples from Poland are dated t...@Toby_P<br /><br />Those GAC samples from Poland are dated to around 3,000 BC, so they're earlier than Corded Ware.<br /><br />And I wouldn't put too much stock into those Polish Corded Ware samples lacking R1a, because the two males who belonged to I2 were related, and R1a was already popping up at the time in Corded Ware west of Poland.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66978541628806409982018-12-04T00:02:48.564-08:002018-12-04T00:02:48.564-08:00@ Davidski
Thanks for your reply.
Yes I know CWC ...@ Davidski<br />Thanks for your reply. <br />Yes I know CWC is earlier, but just recalling seeing maps here and there- Corded Ware isn't that prominent in western Europe, a few enclaves here and there. Even in central Europe, they seem to have slotted in amongst other groups - as we saw in Mathieson 2018, which if I recall correctly has GAC samples from CWC period without any steppe admixtureToby_Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13995615081666019081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-66019883738041822202018-12-03T23:52:44.917-08:002018-12-03T23:52:44.917-08:00@Toby_P
Corded Ware did a lot of the replacing of...@Toby_P<br /><br />Corded Ware did a lot of the replacing of Late Neolithic farmers right up to what is now France, deep in Western Europe, before the Bell Beakers showed up.<br /><br />How all of this went down is yet to be worked out, but very roughly the chronology is first Corded Ware moves in from the east, and then the eastern Beakers do, and then the Beakers replace Corded Ware west of Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2780546339288558442018-12-03T23:37:49.001-08:002018-12-03T23:37:49.001-08:00Hi Epoch. You quoted '' To many, the idea ...Hi Epoch. You quoted '' To many, the idea that people linked to Corded Ware had replaced Neolithic groups in Western Europe was eerily reminiscent of the ideas of Gustaf Kossinna, the early-twentieth-century German archaeologist who had connected Corded Ware culture to the people of modern Germany and promoted a ‘Risk board’ view of prehistory known as settlement archaeology. The idea Toby_Phttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13995615081666019081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60077435000382826182018-12-03T23:15:36.044-08:002018-12-03T23:15:36.044-08:00@ Davidski
Thanks.@ Davidski <br /><br />Thanks.Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-75514761265408918952018-12-03T22:07:37.770-08:002018-12-03T22:07:37.770-08:00@an idiot
If you were to travel to a very ethnica...@an idiot<br /><br />If you were to travel to a very ethnically homogeneous place like, for example, rural northwestern Ireland(as I have), where the people are uniformly descended from central European Beaker folk, and 98% of the men carry R1b-L21, I think you would be struck by how much phenotype(including cranial features) can vary, even in a single village. Phenotype is not a very good tool Bob Floyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01863468406651284016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25895839138921414742018-12-03T21:42:54.310-08:002018-12-03T21:42:54.310-08:00@Ric
These so called basal and old R1b lineages i...@Ric<br /><br />These so called basal and old R1b lineages in the Near East aren't really older than M269, they're just nested within subclades that are more basal splits from the R1b trunk than M269.<br /><br />Their ancestral lineages probably mostly arrived in the Near East at the same time as M269 or even later.<br /><br />That's why modern DNA can be so misleading when looking Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28188508411889178342018-12-03T21:22:07.045-08:002018-12-03T21:22:07.045-08:00@ Davidski
What do you think about the so called...@ Davidski <br /><br />What do you think about the so called "older" diverged Sub-clads of R1b in Modern day population samples in Iran and some other parts of the Middle East ? Should they maybe be retested or could they be legit ? If I remember correctly then these people were tested about 10 years ago or earlier....<br /><br />If still accurate then how do we explain their presence Ric Hernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15069642772317562249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-71984190103993328752018-12-03T19:00:42.232-08:002018-12-03T19:00:42.232-08:00See here...
An early Iranian, obviously
A Mycena...See here...<br /><br /><a href="https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/07/an-early-iranian-obviously.html" rel="nofollow">An early Iranian, obviously</a><br /><br /><a href="https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/07/a-mycenaean-and-iron-age-iranian-walk.html" rel="nofollow">A Mycenaean and an Iron Age Iranian walk into a bar...</a><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-12460619877915755822018-12-03T18:57:38.320-08:002018-12-03T18:57:38.320-08:00@An Idiot
The earliest Iranian speakers are gener...@An Idiot<br /><br />The earliest Iranian speakers are generally regarded to be the Srubnaya people.<br /><br />And the linguistic splits within Iranian are regarded to have happened on the steppe.<br /><br />Scythians are the Iranians who stayed on the steppe.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-58075620931643508792018-12-03T18:36:09.258-08:002018-12-03T18:36:09.258-08:00@Davidski Given Scythians are Iranian (and so thei...@Davidski Given Scythians are Iranian (and so their ethnogenesis took place after the Indo-Iranian split, which occurred in Central Asia), surely it makes more sense that the Scythian homeland was in Central Asia (somewhere East of the Caspian) before conquering the Steppe proper?<br /><br />For Corded Ware-derived IEs, the association with the Nordid phenotype is just so overwhelmingly strong Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-42307951285681433412018-12-03T18:21:38.473-08:002018-12-03T18:21:38.473-08:00Well I don't think Sythians came from near Ira...Well I don't think Sythians came from near Iran.<br /><br />The earliest Scythian genomes are like a mix of Srubnaya and Karasuk, so they can be described as an Iron Age steppe population in origin.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36148363967012956092018-12-03T17:23:58.773-08:002018-12-03T17:23:58.773-08:00Yeah, 23andMe also claims that R1a originated in I...Yeah, 23andMe also claims that R1a originated in Iran and moved to the Eastern European steppes during the Bronze Age. Haha.<br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30291811365605795302018-12-03T17:02:00.800-08:002018-12-03T17:02:00.800-08:0023andme tells its millions of R1b customers that R...23andme tells its millions of R1b customers that R1b originated in early farmers in Mesopotamia. And that it became popular because of Bronze age traders from the Steppe. <br /><br />This is obviously wrong. R1b1a* is all over Mesolithic Europe & no where in ancient West Asia. R1b P312+ Beaker folk weren't male traders, they represent an entire population that made huge impact on overall Samuel Andrewshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09054267559597526866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-53264734026470286102018-12-03T16:47:41.006-08:002018-12-03T16:47:41.006-08:00I'm not aware of the general sentiments among ...I'm not aware of the general sentiments among the Molgen crowd in regards to these issues, but last time I looked there, a bunch of them were arguing that R1b-M269 moved into the steppes from Armenia.<br /><br />Very sharp, obviously.<br /><br />Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-68350656426146643132018-12-03T15:00:58.057-08:002018-12-03T15:00:58.057-08:00@Dude ManBro
“
Sardinia was non-IE speaking until...@Dude ManBro<br /><br />“<br />Sardinia was non-IE speaking until the Roman occupation, so I do not see how CHG ancestry showing up there in the Bronze Age supports a PIE homelands south of the Caucasus.”<br /><br />Because some people want to desperate link these movements (in this case also claimed to be Iran_Neolithic) to the Indo-Europeans, which would make Minoans Indo-European and Iran the Gabrielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17718136580023709390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-13783728521759356122018-12-03T14:41:08.024-08:002018-12-03T14:41:08.024-08:00@Helios
You're now banned after that last ran...@Helios<br /><br />You're now banned after that last rant.<br /><br /><a href="http://eurogenes.blogspot.com.au/2017/09/banned-commentators-list.html" rel="nofollow">Banned commentators list</a><br /><br />By the way, yeah no sh*t there will be lots of J2 and G2 in Mycenaean remains. Have you ever heard about the substantial non-Indo-European substrate in Greek? Well there you go, that Davidskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.com