tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post991884096834154356..comments2024-03-28T05:11:32.082-07:00Comments on Eurogenes Blog: Ancient DNA from early Medieval Muslim graves in FranceDavidskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04637918905430604850noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1586355917951218362016-03-23T00:49:20.694-07:002016-03-23T00:49:20.694-07:00@Olympus: Algarve did have a rich Chalcolithic wit...@Olympus: Algarve did have a rich Chalcolithic with several early towns, like Santa Justa, near the mouth of the Guadiana. These towns disappeared only in the Bronze Age, with a cultural change that began precisely in the Algarve and spread northwards in the following centuries until it reached the Tagus boundary centuries later.<br /><br />@In general: no mystery here, these guys seem to be of Majuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369840391933337204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-21538062902133814442016-03-01T09:52:55.249-08:002016-03-01T09:52:55.249-08:00Just to ad Just to ad something.
The most Souther...Just to ad Just to ad something.<br /> The most Southern part of Portugal, Algarve, as a lot of Islamic influences on naming, architecture and so forth- However no E-M81 or north Africa Haplogroups. But, just 60 miles up north, is the Alentejo and lots and lots of E-M81. Difference? – Algarve had “no Chalcolithic” and the Alentejo is the mother lore of chalcolithic Europe, that saw the bell Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-80032931260642590172016-03-01T09:43:50.309-08:002016-03-01T09:43:50.309-08:00There is a lot of "History Bias" as to t...There is a lot of "History Bias" as to the analysis one makes to DNA. As if differentiated population movement was/is as Proficuous as much "history" one can amount by History itself. Quite au contraire. the more Historical times we are referring to, the more likely there was a lower genetic shift of population. By then all was pretty much settled. Therefore I tend to Olympus Monshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08640679631703214884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46093848154222091522016-02-29T12:09:45.783-08:002016-02-29T12:09:45.783-08:00Cossue
i was only talking about France. Cossue<br />i was only talking about France. J.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02333765573671985337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-18633400059768162892016-02-29T04:36:32.075-08:002016-02-29T04:36:32.075-08:00J. S.
Sorry, I'm feeling a little slow today:...J. S.<br /><br />Sorry, I'm feeling a little slow today: where in this page or outside of it is the evidence that the high frequency of E-M81 among the <i>pasiegos</i> is not due to a founder effect? Honestly.Cossuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00504867599625947101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-28321226881394085302016-02-29T04:10:33.509-08:002016-02-29T04:10:33.509-08:00Cossue
" The high frequency of m81 in the Pas...Cossue<br />" The high frequency of m81 in the Pas valley (in Cantabria)is no doubt due to founder effect"<br />No way...due to reasons explained above. J.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02333765573671985337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-26272723302782559952016-02-29T03:47:14.642-08:002016-02-29T03:47:14.642-08:00David,
Anything on testing the Kum6?. (Its low co...David,<br /><br />Anything on testing the Kum6?. (Its low coverage, yes, but still) ..Nirjhar007https://www.blogger.com/profile/12880827026479135118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-38232305638264030112016-02-28T23:18:27.644-08:002016-02-28T23:18:27.644-08:00The high frequency of m81 in the Pas valley in Can...The high frequency of m81 in the Pas valley in Cantabria is no doubt due to founder effect. But this haplogroup there could be plainly medieval, because of the settlement of a bunch of Moor serfs by local monasteries.<br />Certainly the "Pasiegos" don't look northafrican.Cossuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00504867599625947101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-1590281951951365262016-02-28T03:51:24.033-08:002016-02-28T03:51:24.033-08:00I dunno about Sardinia, but in Sicily and surround...I dunno about Sardinia, but in Sicily and surroundings, 60% of E-m81 does not come from Berbers/North Africans. A neolithic origin is the most plausible hypothesis.<br /><br />Stefania Sarno et al.<br />Besides the low frequency (1.5%) of E-M81 lineages in general observed in our SSI (Sicily and Southern Italy) dataset, the typical Maghrebin core haplotype 13-14-30-24-9-11-13 [8] has been found AlexDeLargehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16465103230909524944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-62253771915506947012016-02-27T03:06:44.587-08:002016-02-27T03:06:44.587-08:00There is no question that there was gene-flow from...There is no question that there was gene-flow from north Africa into southern and south-western Europe long prior to the Moors. At least as early as Neolithic. For example mtDNA L in ancient DNA from Chalcolithic Iberia, and the age of certain clades of L in Iberia, Italy, and Czech/Slovak Republic. Plus E-M81 in Cantabria is surely ancient. However in the case of the Paris Basin can we be Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13013399855770625556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-55938974836365841982016-02-27T02:17:45.855-08:002016-02-27T02:17:45.855-08:00Just because a certain area has E-M81, it doesn...Just because a certain area has E-M81, it doesn't necessarily mean it was introduced by North African invaders during the islamic expansion period, history goes a long way back, and it didn't stop in the middle ages. I guess that the fact the highest E-M81 frequency found in Europe is in Cantabria should point to that.André de Vasconceloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14661586310311442995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-52879982536818028962016-02-26T23:57:38.253-08:002016-02-26T23:57:38.253-08:00In France, the data are too scarce
How to draw map...In France, the data are too scarce<br />How to draw maps without testing ?<br />Without forgetting that most of the population in Paris area is not of origin.<br /><br />E-M81 is probably present in France via a spanish ancestryr and not via <br />the Islamic conquest.<br />Helgenes50https://www.blogger.com/profile/10048641344885582425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-30263991161852749852016-02-26T16:49:15.255-08:002016-02-26T16:49:15.255-08:00I do not know if there is any correlation between ...I do not know if there is any correlation between autosomal result and uniparental frequency,but according to Aude Saint-Pierre & al study The fine-scale genetic structure of the French population,<br />" Combining the 1000 Genomes individuals with the French population confirmed this trend with the West (GO) andNorth (NO) regions of France classified with the CEU and GBR populations J.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02333765573671985337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-25177637912482542662016-02-26T16:29:30.882-08:002016-02-26T16:29:30.882-08:00Eupedia 's map is just maciamo'a fantaisy....Eupedia 's map is just maciamo'a fantaisy. On what sdutiy(ies) is it based? <br />No geogenealogical study of the y chromosome for the whole country which take into account the real region origin of the individuals has been made.<br />This kind of study is almost forbidden in France because of ideological reasons. Ethnic/native Frecnh officially does not exist. <br /> <br /><br /><br />J.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02333765573671985337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-60788374577013930392016-02-26T13:12:42.209-08:002016-02-26T13:12:42.209-08:00"it appears clear that the genetic impact of ..."it appears clear that the genetic impact of the Arab rule was less significant in France."<br />http://www.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-E-M81.gifArielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705005224594803817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-16967827394070028172016-02-26T11:53:52.210-08:002016-02-26T11:53:52.210-08:00It is also worth noting that this subtle archeolog...It is also worth noting that this subtle archeological testimony echoes the absence of any noticeable genetic heritage from these Muslim groups in the modern-day French population. The genetic impact of the Muslim occupation on the European gene pool has been assessed by analyzing the extant European gene pool (mainly from Southern Europe). For example, the analysis of extant populations in J.S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02333765573671985337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-83727752627877729792016-02-25T19:38:37.498-08:002016-02-25T19:38:37.498-08:00I would have liked they took the aDNA also , it co...I would have liked they took the aDNA also , it could have give us some insight on the genetic composition of these berbers and their relation to modern iberian and north african Castorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13435882079243793370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-73839251676157938372016-02-25T01:45:49.023-08:002016-02-25T01:45:49.023-08:00Where does one get data about the distribution of ...Where does one get data about the distribution of K1a4?<br />Eupedia makes the claim that this lineage was brought to Europe with the neolithic farmers and must have been picked up and carried around with R1b people since it suposedly mimmicks (in Europe) the distribution of R1b? (but cant find any distribution maps/lists. -.-Fantyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07969348276219179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-46936693364778993022016-02-25T01:35:38.368-08:002016-02-25T01:35:38.368-08:00Nimes was part of the Visigoth realm. No Frankish ...Nimes was part of the Visigoth realm. No Frankish at this point (yet)<br />According to the Chronicles, Abd el-Aziz conquered Nimes in 725. It is to be supposed that Nimes remained under muslim rule until some point between 750 and 759. There were three main muslim military actions in France: the one ending in 725, the Poitiers Battle (732) and the Umayyad invasion as a consequence of the loss atAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17896088699035781864noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-2164325668240866752016-02-25T01:28:12.673-08:002016-02-25T01:28:12.673-08:00Very unsurprising, considering the date.
The H1 c...Very unsurprising, considering the date.<br /><br />The H1 could have been in North Africa for a long time, it's not like people were stuck on either side of the Mediterranean until the Roman period.André de Vasconceloshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14661586310311442995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-10968679487929437682016-02-24T16:07:22.847-08:002016-02-24T16:07:22.847-08:00Krefter,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...Krefter,<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1810519/Chadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10118937611048574688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36449726088276542352016-02-24T15:57:12.293-08:002016-02-24T15:57:12.293-08:00A quick search reveals that K1a4 is also common in...A quick search reveals that K1a4 is also common in the Levant and has been found in Neolithic Catalonia. Either source would be plausible in the factual circumstances presented. The Levant assuming a source moving from the epicenter of the Islamic expansion, Catalonia or the vicinity assuming genes picked up locally.<br /><br />The paper lists the mutations used to make the H1 classification andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-36125598172818705792016-02-24T15:25:43.295-08:002016-02-24T15:25:43.295-08:00H1 is the modal Berber mtDNA haplogroup (the highe...H1 is the modal Berber mtDNA haplogroup (the highest proportion of H1 of any population in the world involves some sub-populations of Berbers), so there is every reason to think that it is consistent with the hypothesis offered, although H1 would also be common in Iberia and the South of France. <br /><br />The Y-DNA haplogroup is likely the modal Berber Y-DNA haplogroup.<br /><br />These andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08172964121659914379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4123559132014627431.post-89698565966964676492016-02-24T13:36:24.128-08:002016-02-24T13:36:24.128-08:00K1a4a is typical of Europe. I'll have to look ...K1a4a is typical of Europe. I'll have to look at the H1, to see if has a North African or European subclade. But the K1a4a might be European. Krefterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01055804913528477710noreply@blogger.com