Over at
Molecular Genetics and Genomics at this
LINK. I wonder how the Q1a Khvalynsk guy (see
here) fits into this story?
Abstract: The human Y-chromosome has proven to be a powerful tool for tracing the paternal history of human populations and genealogical ancestors. The human Y-chromosome haplogroup Q is the most frequent haplogroup in the Americas. Previous studies have traced the origin of haplogroup Q to the region around Central Asia and Southern Siberia. Although the diversity of haplogroup Q in the Americas has been studied in detail, investigations on the diffusion of haplogroup Q in Eurasia and Africa are still limited. In this study, we collected 39 samples from China and Russia, investigated 432 samples from previous studies of haplogroup Q, and analyzed the single nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) subclades Q1a1a1-M120, Q1a2a1-L54, Q1a1b-M25, Q1a2-M346, Q1a2a1a2-L804, Q1a2b2-F1161, Q1b1a-M378, and Q1b1a1-L245. Through NETWORK and BATWING analyses, we found that the subclades of haplogroup Q continued to disperse from Central Asia and Southern Siberia during the past 10,000 years. Apart from its migration through the Beringia to the Americas, haplogroup Q also moved from Asia to the south and to the west during the Neolithic period, and subsequently to the whole of Eurasia and part of Africa.
Huang, YZ., Pamjav, H., Flegontov, P. et al.,
Dispersals of the Siberian Y-chromosome haplogroup Q in Eurasia,
Mol Genet Genomics (2017). https://doi.org/10.1007/s00438-017-1363-8
See also...
Phylogeography of Y-haplogroup Q3-L275
Cool, only skimmed it
ReplyDeleteThey seem to imply a SW siberian origin for Q overall. Makes sense I guess
SW Siberia? Hmm And how then the Q1a2 L54 guy has found an X2 woman there more than 15.000 years ago when we have X2 in Iran Neolithic.
ReplyDeleteQ1a1a1-M120 migration on that map doesn't make much sense. Imho it invaded China from North. Chinese has found a lot of Q1a1 in 3000 year old samples. There was a paper about that.
ReplyDeleteThis phrase makes more sense. But Neolithic is disputable.
ReplyDelete-----
Q1a1a1-M120 appears almost only in Eastern Asia, and its diversity implies that haplogroup Q has migrated from north to south with the ancestors of current Han Chinese during the Neolithic period (Su et al. 2000; Wells et al. 2001; Tarazona-Santos et al. 2001; Wen et al. 2004; Gayden et al. 2007; Nonaka et al. 2007; Zhong et al. 2011; Zhao et al. 2015).
This gives some support to the Ket Na dene connection.
ReplyDeleteExpansion times in Table 1 are worth a look. South Siberian Q1a2a1-L54 (Yenisei basin) is one of the youngest subgroups! TMRCA is only 2.4/3.3 OMRS while East Asian Q1a1a1-M120 is the oldest subgroup with OMRS of 11.6/6.4. Again the highest frequency does not equal the oldest age.
ReplyDeleteOther old subgroups are Jewish Q1b1a1-L245 (OMRS 10.9/5.4) and Scandinavian Q1a2a1a2-L804 (OMRS 7.1/6.3).
We need ancient yDNA to be more precise about the place of origin.
the authors forgotten the amazing south-scandinavian haplogroup Q.
ReplyDelete"The authors forgotten the amazing south-scandinavian haplogroup Q"
ReplyDeleteNo, they haven't. They suggest that Q1a2a1a2-L804 is a farmer lineage that spread with Neolithic farmers. Well, I am not fully convinced.
@ Kristiina
ReplyDelete"Other old subgroups are Jewish Q1b1a1-L245 (OMRS 10.9/5.4)"
Are you sure that this Q-L245 Jewish cluster is so old or rather a very recent one introgressed from somewhere and after the diaspora?
Unfortunately I haven't access to the YFull group of hg Q (why?), but it seems that these haplotypes are very low variated and here in the tree:
perhaps here
Q-Y2197 FGC1933/Y2197 * Y2198/FGC1932 1200 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 1650 850 ybp" class="age"formed 1550 ybp, TMRCA 1250 ybp
and here
Q-YP1003 FGC23583/YP1003 1200 ybp, TMRCA CI 95% 2100 1050 ybp" class="age"formed 1550 ybp, TMRCA 1550 ybp
It is ridiculous to classify some haplotypes M378, which is upstream L245, and they are only the samples not tested for the downstream L245, but they are the same.
It is ridiculous this sample
X1863 13 13 16 22 10 15 13 11 14 12 Jewish Netherlands L245 FTDNA
where very likely DYS437 and DYS438 were inverted.
@Gioiello Of course I am not sure about that. It is the paper which argues that. I am also surprised myself.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, the estimated age of Q1b1a1-L245 exceeds the Judaism if Judaism is 3000-4000 years old and OMRS of Q1b1a1 is 10.9/5.4.
Is the thing with Scandinavian Q settled yet though? I've always considered the PIE/CWC origin as the most logical but has there been any actual ancient ydna Q samples from Northern Europe?
ReplyDelete@Kristiina - The Yenisei basin timeline matches up with Xiongu defeating and driving out the Indo-European Yuezhi.
ReplyDeleteFor the Jewish Q1b - isn't there quite a bit of old Q lineages in West Asia?
By the way - re: Q1a Khvalynsk dude, there's mtDNA haplogroup C4 in this area at the same time. So another uniparental marker with a deep link to the Americas.
ReplyDeleteFound out couple of days ago that my husband’s maternal Grandfather was yDNA Q M378 L214 L215 S325. Surname is Hill.
ReplyDelete