Southern Italy is a key region for understanding the agricultural transition in the Mediterranean due to its central position. We present a genomic transect for 19 prehistoric Sicilians that covers the Early Mesolithic to Early Neolithic period. We find that the Early Mesolithic hunter-gatherers (HGs) are a highly drifted sister lineage to Early Holocene western European HGs, whereas a quarter of the Late Mesolithic HGs ancestry is related to HGs from eastern Europe and the Near East. This indicates substantial gene flow from (south-)eastern Europe between the Early and Late Mesolithic. The Early Neolithic farmers are genetically most similar to those from the Balkan[s] and Greece, and carry only a maximum of ~7% ancestry from Sicilian Mesolithic HGs. Ancestry changes match changes in dietary profile and material culture, except for two individuals who may provide tentative initial evidence that HGs adopted elements of farming in Sicily.van de Loosdrecht et al., Genomic and dietary transitions during the Mesolithic and Early Neolithic in Sicily, bioRxiv, Posted March 12, 2020, doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.03.11.986158 See also... Early Anatolian farmers were overwhelmingly of local hunter-gatherer origin
Thursday, March 12, 2020
The agricultural transition in Sicily (van de Loosdrecht et al. 2020 preprint)
Over at bioRxiv at this LINK. Below is the abstract:
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"The Early Neolithic farmers are genetically most similar to those from the Balkan[s] and Greece,"
ReplyDeleteLike I said before. Current published Neolithic genomes in Sicily, Italy are related to Balkan farmers not Sardinia/Spain farmers.
Italy might be a homeland of some WHGs. or it might be THE homeland of WHG.
ReplyDeleteSicily WHGs seem to be the most pure WHGs. Same is true for WHGs from Central Italy. They also carry a unique
"As previously reported for OrienteC (15), the Sicily EM HGs UZZ5054 and UZZ96 fall at the 148 extreme WHG-end of both ancestry clines, slightly outside the genetic variation of the Villabruna cluster,"
When are they going to test the megalithic builders in Malta?
ReplyDeleteItaly, 18,800BP, Paglicci71 U5b2b
ReplyDeleteItaly, 14,000BP, Villabruna, U5b2b1
Then there's one new U5b2b1a in Sicily dating 8,000 BC. I bet that 19,000BoP U5b2b1a is the oldest WHG on record. He's in Southern Italy. They have't gotten autosomal DNA yet.
The, Western U5b WHgs might orginate in Italy. But, Eastern U5a WHG might have different origin. In G25 PCA, even picks up a difference in the WHG in Eastern European HGs.
Which, means WHG might be over 20,000 years old. One branch expanded out of Italy after the Ice age, maybe another branch expanded out of Southeast Europe after the Ice age.
ReplyDeleteI am generally convinced that every old (before the trade time) epochal change has somehow been brought about by some kind of migration.
R1b/WHG brought the Final Paleolithic to Europe.
R1a/EHG brought the Mesolithic to Europe.
Q brought the Pottery Neolithic to Europe.
Here in Sicily one can see the migration from South-East Europe bringing the Late Mesolithic, from the Balkan Cardial Ceramics bringing the Early Neolithic.
@ Sam
ReplyDelete''Like I said before. Current published Neolithic genomes in Sicily, Italy are related to Balkan farmers not Sardinia/Spain farmers.''
I don't understand what is so novel or surprising about these observations of yours . It has been known for > 100 years that Italian Neolithic came from Balkans, not Spain.
''Italy might be a homeland of some WHGs. or it might be THE homeland of WHG.''
But WHG is a composite population, how can it have come from one place ? Youre misinterpreting what a PCA actually tells us
@ Archi
''R1b/WHG brought the Final Paleolithic to Europe.
R1a/EHG brought the Mesolithic to Europe.''
Where is Mesolithic R1a in Siberia ?
R1 probably arrived during end of LGM
@Rob,
ReplyDelete"I don't understand what is so novel or surprising about these observations of yours . It has been known for > 100 years that Italian Neolithic came from Balkans, not Spain."
Some posters here assumed all Southwest European farmers came from the same Cardiel population. Nobody thinks Italy Neolithic is from Spain. But, I and some others here, expected Italy Early neolithic to derive from the same source as Spain Early Neolithic.
Also, my point is I am right about G25 PCA picking up a difference beetween Spain & balkan farmers. Because they derive from two different Anatolian populations who migrated into different parts of Europe. Not because of different kinds of WHG ancestry as you argue.
@Rob
ReplyDeleteMesolithic began with the end of LGM.
Where are the samples from Siberia at the end of the Paleolithic and Mesolithic?
R1a is more eastern the R1b. It's fact.
ReplyDeleteIn general, according to their calculations it turns out that as if the late Mesalitic population of Sicily came from Ukraine.))
Mesolithic Ukraine Vasilyevka 3 [I1763 / StPet9, inv. 6462/23] 8280-7967 calBCE (8960±50 BP, Poz-81127) M I2a1 U5b2
Neolithic Mariupol type Ukraine Volniensky, Vilnianka, Grave 25 [I3716] 5469-5328 calBCE (6410±25 BP, PSUAMS-2302) M I2 U5b2a1a
Neolithic Mariupol type Ukraine Dereivka I, Grave 27 [I5888 / S5888.E1.L1] father_or_son_of_S5875.E1.L1 5500-4800 BCE M I2a2 U5b2b1
Mesolithic Ukraine Vasilyevka 3 [I1737 / StPet10] 8540-8301 calBCE (9200±35 BP, PSUAMS-2394) F U5a2
But the Balkans are still more likely.
Mesolithic Iron Gates Serbia Hadučka Vodenica [I4915 / HJDK_21] 6340-5990 calBCE (7260±76 BP, PSUAMS-2360, corrected for Freshwater Reservoir Effect) M I2a2 U5b2b
Mesolithic Iron Gates Serbia Hadučka Vodenica [I5401 / HJDK_8 ] 7076-6699 calBCE (8016±58 BP, OxA-13613, corrected for Freshwater Reservoir Effect) M I2a2 U5a1
@Archi,"I am generally convinced that every old (before the trade time) epochal change has somehow been brought about by some kind of migration."
ReplyDeleteInteresting, maybe that it is true. We can conclude the anti-migrationists archaeologists were wrong about Europe.
@ Archi
ReplyDelete''Mesolithic began with the end of LGM.''
That is a highly idiosyncratic definition of 'Mesolithic'
@ Sam
''Also, my point is I am right about G25 PCA picking up a difference beetween Spain & balkan farmers. Because they derive from two different Anatolian populations who migrated into different parts of Europe. ''
But if Italian Neolithic is from/ via Balkans/ Greece too, where did Spanish Neolithic come from ? Direct ex-oriente ?
''Not because of different kinds of WHG ancestry as you argue.''''
Of course that's the case. Inflated El Miron -related ancestry in Early Iberian Neolithic; which diminished over time due to arrivals from France in the pre-Beaker period.
Old news
@Rob,
ReplyDelete"But if Italian Neolithic is from/ via Balkans/ Greece too, where did Spanish Neolithic come from ? Direct ex-oriente ?"
Good point. They must have also gone through the Balkans. I agree doesn't make sense for them not to be descended from Barcin-Western Anatolia. But, I think DNA shows they were from a different ANatolian population.
"Of course that's the case. Inflated El Miron -related ancestry in Early Iberian Neolithic; which diminished over time due to arrivals from France in the pre-Beaker period."
Ibera EN only had 13% HG ancestry. It's not the driving point of its makeup.
@Rob
ReplyDeleteIt is not definition of ... . Learn to Read.
@ Archi
ReplyDeleteI could read when I was 3.
Calling the post-LGM period 'Mesolithic' is downright bizarre, even by your standards
The period 20-15 yBp is essentially a continuation of the Upper Paleolithic, with big game hunting
The Mesolithic, according to both European and Russian scholarship is coicident with the Boreal, after ~ 11 Kcal BP, with a transitional but erratic period called 'Final Paleolithic between 15-11000 cap BP'. The Mesolithic is quite a distinct period to earlier periods, because of diversification of resource procurement, including increased gathering & fushing, and changes in territoriality/ settlement stabilty
@ Sam
I just dont think anything in it. 15% isn't small, given differences in effective population sizes
@Archi,
ReplyDelete"R1a is more eastern the R1b. It's fact."
R1b was popular in Mesolithic Europe, but Y DNa I2 was older. Y DNA I is found ating 30ky, it is found in Magdalonian, it is the older lineage. I'm pretty sure original WHG, carried mainly I. R1b should originally come from the same Paleo pop as R1a.....ANE in North Asia.
I still think Early R1b originated in the Southern Urals...or near Poland and rapidly expanded very early towards the Urals. But Southern Urals seems more likely.
ReplyDeleteR-PH155 led me to that conclusion...
ReplyDelete@Ric Hern, yeah wouldn't be suprised if the R1b mutation happened in Europe. Ultimatly, R/R1 is from ANE in North Asia. Most authortative voices like 23andme and Wikipedia are still under the impression R1b arrived recently in Europe. Don't know, lots of R1b lineages were there in MEsolithic, but one lineage R1b M269 survived.
ReplyDelete@ Samuel Andrews
ReplyDeleteYes this Paper actually throws some Light on where Villabruna R1b actually came from. And it is interesting to see that there were probably three different Mesolithic Populations in the Balkans basically contributing from Three different directions. Western Europe, Eastern Europe and Anatolia/Near East...
And Villabruna didn't have the Near Eastern/Anatolian admixture but Iron Gates did....So R1b definitely NOT from the South or West but from the North and
ReplyDeleteor East...
@Rob "I could read when I was 3."
ReplyDeleteYou still can 't read, that's a fact. I did not write what is called Mesolithic, I wrote when it begins! But you are not able to understand anyone's texts as always. I repeat for the unintelligent, the Mesolithic begins with the end of the Ice age! Here we are talking about time, and without your inventions of an ignorant person.
@Samuel Andrews
True WHG begins with Villabruna cluster of R1b. Before this it was not true WHG, but many different Paleolithic European clusters.
At last!
ReplyDeleteA new post with a new article. Am i the only one that sees that 2020 did not start good!
almost no new articles and new posts coming on a monthly basis!
Scientific platforms also are extremely poor!
Is it because of the Coronavirus?
I dunno!!!
If that "Near Eastern" is from the Caucasus and related to Dzudzuana could it be that Iron Gates R1b picked up this ancestry somewhere North of the Caucasus on their way Westwards and not in the Balkans ?
ReplyDeleteSo maybe two different migrations of R1b into Italy and the Balkans...? If so the this could mean that if Villabruna R1b Ancestors maybe passed through the same area in the Steppe or Forest Steppe, they did not encounter this Dzudzuana related people yet while Iron Gates Ancestors did....
However it could be that I'm daydreaming because somewhere they mentioned Anatolia...
Interesting pre-print, not anything surprising from a quick read of the main paper.
ReplyDeleteThough from the paper:
"We speculate that a single hitherto unsampled population, with
an ultimate origin perhaps in the Near East or Caucasus, might harbor the genetic diversity that fits the combined EHG- and Near Eastern-related ancestry in Sicily LM HGs"
As before, I am still confused about the Iran_N component, does it fit better? Did they try CHG?
@Samuel Andrews
ReplyDelete"Like I said before. Current published Neolithic genomes in Sicily, Italy are related to Balkan farmers not Sardinia/Spain farmers."
I remember you writing this in the previous thread, and I thought about it when reading the paper.
Sam: "Like I said before. Current published Neolithic genomes in Sicily, Italy are related to Balkan farmers not Sardinia/Spain farmers."
ReplyDeleteI find the ADMIXTURE diagram from the recent Sardinian study (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6) intriguing. There, at K=6, EEF split into two components - a dark purple and a light purple one. Both components are present in all ANF/EEF populations, albeit at different proportions: While "dark purple" predominates in ANF, and Balkans and CE EN, "light purple" makes up for a substantial part (35%?) in EN/Nur Sardinia, Morocco_LN, and also several Iberia_EN/ECA/BA samples. Furthermore interesting is that Iran_CA has "dark purple", but no "light purple", While OTOH some "light purple" w/o any "dark purple" can be observed in WHG, IronGates and Steppe_EMBA.
My best guess at the moment is that "dark purple" represents the originial East Anatolian Farmers, and "light purple" some kind of (yet unsampled) "Bosporus HGs" that became integrated when farming spread there out of E. Anatolia.[There is indication of some population continuity from pre-farming times around the Bosporus (Barcin etc.), e.g. different pig mtDNA in E. Anatolia and around the Bosporus. G25 modelling furthermore reveals some Barcin-like signals in Mesolithic and Neolithic Ukraine that are in all likelyhood not connected to the spread of farming, but represent Mesolithic population movement around the Western Black Sea.]
If so, there may actually have been two "Island hopping" expansions out of the E. Mediterranean: An early, yet undocumented, by Bosporus_HGs, and somewhat later the well documented Cardial Pottery expansion.
Just started to read that Sicily paper in detail. Noteworthy in relation to my previous commment (p.8): "the Upper Palaeolithic Pınarbaşı-related ancestry in the Sicily LM HGs is striking, and underlines previous indications for a pre-Neolithic genetic connection between the Near East and European HGs by at least 12,000 calBCE."
ReplyDelete@FrankN
ReplyDeletePınarbaşı is migrant from Europe.
Archi: "Pınarbaşı is migrant from Europe." How so? Tell me more..
ReplyDeleteAnyway, from that Sicily paper, p. 13: "The ~6,750-5,850 calBCE Late Mesolithic HGs derive between 15-37% of their ancestry from an EHG-related source with an affinity to the Near East. (..) The seven oldest individuals in this group (dated ~6,750-6,250 calBCE) are tentatively assigned to the Castelnovian sensu lato facies (12, 14, 69) (Supplementary Section S1). The Castelnovian is part of the pan-European Late Mesolithic blade and trapeze lithic complex, and appeared throughout Italy ~6,800-6,500 calBCE ((70), D. Binder personal communication). These lithic industries have been argued to originate from the Circum Pontic area (71, 72) (..). The ancestry profiles of the individuals associated with the Castelnovian sensu lato show a similarity to those of Mesolithic HGs from the Iron Gates, eastern Europe and the Baltic, hence providing support for a connection to the East. "
Alright: Archeological links to the Circum-Pontic, genetic influx of both EHG and Anatolian_HG elements by around/ prior to 6.800 BC. My hypothetical "Bosporus HGs" don't look too bad as candidates, don't they? Certainly better than Ukraine_Mes/ IronGates_HG, which both lack enough of AHG (Pınarbaşı) to qualify as source.
I'm very critical of the supposed Near Eastern HG admix. Seems the authors took great liberty when creating a range of where the new HG admix could have come from.
ReplyDelete@ Archi
ReplyDelete“ You still can 't read, that's a fact. I did not write what is called Mesolithic, I wrote when it begins! But you are not able to understand anyone's texts as always. I repeat for the unintelligent, the Mesolithic begins with the end of the Ice age! Here we are talking about time, and without your inventions of an ignorant person.”
Yes Archi; you demonstrated your cleverness when you showed that Bustan LBA is of predominantly Ust-Ishm ancestry
Anyway; just so you don’t confuse anyone with your made up ideas :
A proper periodisation of Late Palaeolithic vs Mesolithic (Haertz et al)
@ frank N
ReplyDeletePinarbasi is probably an UP relict group
Castelnovzation is just a broad femoral category. Whatever HGs were in Anatolia we’re integrated into main Neolithic wave
We do see an outlier lineage in Mesolithic Sardinia (SaCuroppu) indicating possible pre-Neolithic links; but it seems to have been swept away, according to the original papers conclusions
@FrankN
ReplyDelete" "Pınarbaşı is migrant from Europe." How so? Tell me more.."
C1a2 in Anatolia is from Epipaleolitic Europe.
Palaeolithic Aurignacian Belgium Troisième caverne (Goyet) [GoyetQ116-1] 33210-32480 calBCE (30880+170-160 BP, GrA-46175) M C1a
Palaeolithic Russia Sunghir [Sunghir 1 / SI] 33875-31770 cal BP M C1a2a
Palaeolithic Russia Sunghir [Sunghir 2 / SII] 35283-33185 cal BP M C1a2
Palaeolithic Russia Sunghir [Sunghir 3 / SIII] 35154-33031 cal BP M C1a2
Palaeolithic Russia Sunghir [Sunghir 4 / SIV] 34485-33499 cal BP (29820 ± 280 BP, OxA-X-2462-52) M C1a2
Palaeolithic Gravettian Czech Republic Dolni Vestonice [Vestonice16] 28760-27360 BCE [28634-27458 calBCE (GrN-15277: 25740±210 BP); 28586-27086 calBCE (25570±280, GrN-15276); layer date] M C1a2
Palaeolithic Epipaleolithic Turkey Pinarbași [ZBC] 13642–13073 cal BCE M C1a2
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Y-Haplogroup_Paleolithic_Migrations.png
I don't know from where those EHG-relations came to Sicily, but EHG-cline the Samara-Ukraine-Sicily-Iron Gate is obvious.
But it went obviously somewhere where it used to be C1a2.
The Early Mesolithic is what others call the Final Paleolithic in the narrow sense.
"The Early Mesolithic HGs from Grotta dell'Uzzo analysed here produced a lithic industry of Epigravettian tradition ((68), Supplementary Section S1) and, in continuity with their predecessors,".
They are associated with Villabruna, who also came from Siberia.
Palaeolithic Russia Yana river, north Siberia [Yana1] 32047-31321 cal BP (27940 ± 115 BP) M P1 U2'3'4'7'8'9
Palaeolithic Russia Yana river, north Siberia [Yana2] 32047-31321 cal BP (27940 ± 115 BP) M P1 U2'3'4'7'8'9
@Rob "Yes Archi; you demonstrated your cleverness"
You know, I'm always right.
ReplyDeleteArchaeology knows for sure that there was no migration from Anatolia to Europe at all in Upper Palaeolithic, only the Balkan Gravette culture was spreading in the north of Anatolia from the Balkans, because at that time there was no Bosporus and Anatolia and Europe was separated by a river. In Anatolia at that time practically no one lived, lived only on its periphery, spreading from Europe is in it.
@ Frank N
ReplyDeleteThe aforementioned Sardinia Meso mtdna paper
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5335606/
@Archi, U2'3'4'7'8'9 is basically the same thing as U. It is defined by only one more mutation than U is. U2'3'4'7'8'9 in Paleo Siberia means as much as U existing there. Which we already knew because MA1 had U*.
ReplyDeleteThere's U2 all over Paleo Europe, there's U2'3'4'7'8'9* in Paleo Italy. There's no indication the U2'3'4'7'8'9 lineage in mesolithic Sicily which should be called U10 (it's really just a new U subclade), comes from Siberia.
@Samuel Andrews
ReplyDeleteI wrote that it is Villabruna who is the Final(/Epi) Paleolithic, not Mesolithic.
U2'3'4'7'8'9 is not U10, but ancestral to U2,U3,U4,U7,U8,U9. Obviously, it come into Western Europe from Eastern Europe or Siberia in Upper Paleolithic, not Mesolithic.
It came to Sicily with the Villabruna cluster.
The basal diversity of U is in upper near east and Balkans: U3, U4, U5, U6, U8
ReplyDeleteSiberia is side lineages of western origin
Rob: "Whatever HGs were in Anatolia we’re integrated into main Neolithic wave."
ReplyDeleteFully aggree. And that's actually the problem: We may misinterprete signals that eventually relate to Anatolian HGs, as having been created by ANF, because the former were swept up and integrated by the latter.
I am pretty certain that something like "Bosporus HGs" existed - paleoclimatic modelling suggests a LGM refugium in the Bosporus area / N. Aeagean [Archi: Of course, before ca. 6 kya BC the Bosporus was just a river.] Unfortunately, they haven't yet been sampled aDNA wise, so we at the moment can't tell how much of Barcin-related ancestry relates to ANF, and how much to such hypothetical Bosporus_HGs.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing basal U in the Balkans. The Balkans are definitely not a distributor of mito U.
Oldest
Palaeolithic Russia Ust'-Ishim, western Siberia [Ust_Ishim] 45530-40610 calBCE [46064-40920 calBCE (41400±1300 BP, OxA-25516); 46364-40844 calBCE (41400±1400 BP, OxA-30190)] M K2a* (pre-NO*) R*
Palaeolithic Romania Peştera Cioclovina Uscată [Cioclovina1] 33090-31780 cal BP M CT M5756 U
Palaeolithic Gravettian Czech Republic Dolni Vestonice [Vestonice43] 30710-29310 cal BP M F P145, P158, PF3641, FI4, CTS2193, CTS4848, CTS8963, CTS11540 U
Palaeolithic Russia Mal'ta, Siberia [MA1] 22570-22140 calBCE (20240±60 BP, UCIAMS-79666) M R* U*
These subclads of this haplogroup has two ways to penetrate into Europe, through the Caucasus into Eastern Europe together with Y I and from Siberia together with Y C1, K2a, R. U2'3'4'7'8'9 obviously has second path.
@ FrankN
ReplyDelete“ And that's actually the problem: We may misinterprete signals that eventually relate to Anatolian HGs”
Whats the potential problem ? As far as most of Europe is concerned it doesn’t impact the overall conclusion
We have Pinarbasi; and subsequent Anatolian Neolithic data too. And this suggests that, despite the presence of local Aegean-Anatolian HGs ; there was a pretty significant movement into Anatolia from Syria or even further east (Zagros etc)
@ Archie
ReplyDeleteYou don’t seem to understand that Yana is not ancestral to anything in Europe
The designation “U*” doesn’t mean it’s ancestral to other mtDNa U.
You also forgot mtdna R* in Fumane
Show me some U5, U4, U6, in pre Bronze Age Siberia
Ust-Ishm isn’t ancestral
Siberia is extinct lineages like Yana; and the rest is recent european arrivals
@FrankN
ReplyDeleteTarget: Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG:ZBC_IPB001
Distance: 10.8429% / 0.10842880
83.0 BEL_GoyetQ116-1
17.0 GEO_CHG
0.0 BEL_Loschbour
0.0 RUS_AfontovaGora3
0.0 RUS_MA1
0.0 RUS_Sidelkino_HG
0.0 ITA_Villabruna
0.0 WHG
Target: Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG:ZBC_IPB001
Distance: 10.0643% / 0.10064316
60.4 BEL_GoyetQ116-1
36.4 CMR_Shum_Laka_8000BP
3.2 GEO_CHG
0.0 BEL_Loschbour
0.0 ITA_Villabruna
0.0 RUS_AfontovaGora3
0.0 RUS_MA1
0.0 RUS_Sidelkino_HG
0.0 WHG
0.0 ZAF_2100BP
Target: Anatolia_Pinarbasi_HG:ZBC_IPB001
Distance: 9.3168% / 0.09316786
66.4 CHN_Tianyuan
18.8 CMR_Shum_Laka_8000BP
14.8 BEL_GoyetQ116-1
0.0 BEL_Loschbour
0.0 GEO_CHG
0.0 ITA_Villabruna
0.0 RUS_AfontovaGora3
0.0 RUS_MA1
0.0 RUS_Sidelkino_HG
0.0 WHG
0.0 ZAF_2100BP
@Rob
ReplyDeleteYou do not understand that Europe is not the homeland of U, it came there in separate waves with already formed subclades and not from the Near East through the Balkans.
As per above ; highlight U2, U4, U6, U7, U8 which is ancestral in Siberia
ReplyDeleteGo on ..
again again and again...
ReplyDeleteRussia Siberia, western, Tyumen Oblast, Tyumen50, Kurgan 6, Mergen 6 (building No. 15) [I1960] 6361-6071 calBCE [6335-6071 calBCE (7330±40 BP, Poz-82198), 6361-6086 calBCE (7355±40 BP, OxA-33489, d15N=+15.3 permil possible marine influence)] F U2e3
Russia Siberia, western, Tyumen Oblast, Tyumen1, Kurgan 1, Mergen 6 (building No. 21, burial 1) [I1958] 4723-4558 calBCE (5805±25 BP, PSUAMS-2359) F U
Russia Siberia, Sosnoviy Ostrov, Tomsk10, inventory number 3079, burial 1 [I5766] 4230-3983 calBCE (5261±33 BP, OxA-33486) F U5a2b1
Palaeolithic Russia Kostenki 14 - Markina Gora,Voronezh region [Kostenki14] 36730-34310 calBCE (33250±500 BP, OxA-X-2395-15) M C1b U2
Palaeolithic Russia Mal'ta, Siberia [MA1] 22570-22140 calBCE (20240±60 BP, UCIAMS-79666) M R* U*
Palaeolithic Russia Yana river, north Siberia [Yana1] 32047-31321 cal BP (27940 ± 115 BP) M P1 U2'3'4'7'8'9
Palaeolithic Russia Yana river, north Siberia [Yana2] 32047-31321 cal BP (27940 ± 115 BP) M P1 U2'3'4'7'8'9
Rob, it's useless to argue with me before I write anything, I thoroughly investigate the question. But your allegations are completely unfounded. You haven't even bothered to prove that Homeland U is the Balkans, only a naked statement, as always. Anyone who knows even a little bit understands that it's wrong.
@ Archie
ReplyDeleteThanks . Your list just demonstrated that U2 is older in european Russia (Kostenki) than Siberia . See, even you can get it right once in an epoch
So; as things stand U diversified in upper near east & Balkans
@Rob
ReplyDeleteKostenki come from Siberia. Siberian Yana U2'3'4'7'8'9 is ancestral to Kostenki U2.
Therefore, your claim that the Balkans are their homeland is false, unequivocal. Yes, theoretically, U2 could have penetrated through the Caucasus, and not through Siberia, but there is no evidence that it was from the Balkans. As you can see in Siberia U were full, you just use the fact that there is much less aDNA. Once again, you have not given a single argument in your support, but I have shown you how wrong you are in the case of Siberia.
@ Archie
ReplyDeleteNo, Yana is not ancestral to Kostenki. If you think it is, create a phylip algorithm to demonstrate it
The date of Yana is younger than Kostenki; and has a massive west Eurasian input in formal models
Then look at U6- earliest in Muierii 2 and Dzudzuana
U5- earliest in Pavlov & Vestonice
U8- earliest in Italy
The movement from Siberia to Europe only occurred in LGM/ LUP
@Rob
ReplyDeleteU2'3'4'7'8'9 is ancestral to U2, U3, U4, U7, U8, U9.
Manipulating the dates won't help you. That's exactly what Kostenki from Siberia, where his ancestral haplogroup existed. Including the ancestral to U to Kostenki.
U6 Dzudzuana is Caucasus, not Balkans. Muierii 2, Pavlov, Italy are not Balcans.
Modern people came to Europe from Siberia and they had mitohaplogroups.
You just take advantage of the fact that there are only a few samples in Paleolithic Siberia, so your arguments are absolutely worthless. I proved that there was a lot of U in Siberia, you proved absolutely nothing.
Interesting paper, but this statement confounded me
ReplyDelete~6,750-5,850 calBCE Late Mesolithic HGs derive between 15-37% of their ancestry from an EHG-related source with an affinity to the Near East.
@David, what group are they alluding to? As per my knowledge, there is no EHG related group in the Near East/West Asia.
@Kouros
ReplyDeleteI suspect they're talking about the Dzudzuana hunter-gatherers.
https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/09/dzudzuana-ice-age-foragers-different.html
But if so, they obviously didn't think things through too well, because there's not much of an EHG-related signal in the Dzudzuana samples.
Davidski:
ReplyDeleteWho cares about the population dynamics of Sicily?.Yet, Sicilian’s to this day still love horse meat. It’s a delicacy. Wonder why?
ReplyDelete@"Bogdan has left a new comment on the post "The agricultural transition in Sicily (van de Loos...":
G-man, I know it pains you deeply, but without my horse riding, club wielding from western steppe forefathers blood, you simply do not exist.....Bring it down a notch and let’s discuss your passionate love to eat horse meat and where that originated..."
Why should that pain me? I am Gioiello Tognoni, R1b1a2-L23-Z2110-FGC24408-FGC24396-FGC24444 /K1a1b1e, and you? Only "Gift of Shit"? Haven't you got a surname and an Y an mt? My theories are due only to the data I have at my disposal. Why should I be against an origin from Yamnaya, from the chiftains from there, and certainly from a Noble Latin of 3000 years ago etc etc? But it seems that all the last data aren't in favour of the levantinists-kurganist-levantinists, said in another way the "Jewish, leftist and gay mafia of the aDNA"...