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Sunday, June 22, 2025

‘Proto-Yamnaya’ Eneolithic individuals from Kuban steppe c. 3700 BC ? (guest post)


This is a guest post by an anonymous contributor. I don't necessarily agree with its findings, but I think it's a good way to get the ball rolling here again. Feel free to let me know what you think. Please note, however, that any comments that show mental instability will be blocked. No more crazy talk on this blog.

In order to understand who Yamnaya people were, one must first define ‘Yamnaya’. We will adopt a strictu sensu view (e.g. Anthony, Heyd) encompassing burials dating 3200-2600 BC, with a characteristic body position, mound construction, and copper artefacts. These complexes can be linked to a core group of people whose autosomal make-up is quite homogeneous throughout their wide geographic range. Moreover, almost all males belong to Y-haplogroup R1b-M269-Z2103. In this light, ‘core Yamnaya’ does not represent a ‘proto-Indo-European’ population, as commonly proclaimed, but a group which contributed to several post-PIE population-language complexes, such as Tocharian, Armenian and some Paleo-Balkan languages. However, historical linguistics is not the focus of this post.

Archeologists had linked Yamnaya to earlier complexes such as Khvalynsk, Repin and/or Mikhalivka. Given that cultural markers such as pottery and burial customs can be borrowed and copied, ancient DNA can offer a more objective assessment of population origins. However, the cacophony of clusters, clines and other statistical constructs in publications can be confusing. A more rationalized approach is required, and one way is to co-analyse phylogenetically linked individuals across space and time. Apart from a lower-quality individual from Smyadovo (Bulgaria c. 4300 BC), the earliest attestation of R1b-M269 is in two individuals from the Kuban steppe (Stavropol region) c. 3700 BC -NV3003 and KST001 (Ghaliachi et al 2024). However, Y-hg R1b-M269 is missing in currently sampled Kuban steppe and north Caucasian males from the preceding period (5000-4000 BC). Males of the ‘Kuban steppe 4500bc’ group (Progress, Vojnucka, Sengeleevskiy, etc) are instead derived for the phylogenetically divergent Y-hg Rb-V1636. Males from the Nalchik cemetery are also derived for Y-hg R1b-V1636, or related haplotypes, although they were buried in a ‘Caucasian Farmer’ pose and heavily infused with such ancestry, but probably also had a burial mound thrown above. We do not know when the R1b-V1636 clans entered the northern Caucasus region, or from where, but they appear to have been attracted by trade with North Caucasian Famer (~Eneolithic) groups- termed as ‘Meshoko-Zamok’, ‘Chokh’, etc, in literature. Curiously the Nalchik group has minimal Central Asian (“TTK-related”) ancestry, whilst the Kuban steppe group has high levels. This suggests that TTK-related ancestry arrived after R1b-V1636 dominant EHG clans entered the North Caucasus region, but other scenarios are possible. Lastly, two ‘Meshoko culture’ males from Unakozovskaya have been assigned to Y-hg J2a-L26.

A shake-up occurred in the north Caucasus after 4000 BC. As we know, this corresponds to the emergence of the Majkop phenomenon, catalysed by renewed migrations from the south. These were not ‘Uruk migrants’ as sometimes proposed - the Uruk phenomenon occurred several hundred years later and was a south Mesopotamian phenomenon. Instead, these newcomers emerge from southern Caucasus- north Mesopotamian ‘Late Chalcolithic’ groups. They brought with them multiple West Asian lineages, such as Y-hg T, L2, J2a-, J2b, G2. Over time they mixed with preceding north Caucasian Eneolithic groups, culminating in the Novosvobodnaja phenomenon.

The emergence of Majkop as a new socio-cultural complex broke down the previous system dominated by Y-hg R1b-V1636 clans. The Majkop sphere consisted of a ‘core’ of heterarchical chiefs buried in elaborate kurgans near the Mountains, and a dynamic northern ‘frontier’ in the steppe lands (as far as the lower Don) between 4000 and 3000 BC. At least 3 ‘‘Majkop periphery’ genetic groups can be defined; in fact all these groups can be termed ‘steppe Majkop’:

1- Group with western Siberian/ north central Asian ancestry (the ‘genetic steppe Majkop’ as defined in Wang et al, 2023)
2- The South Caucasian/north Iranian ‘Zolotarevka’ group
3- The R1b-M269 duo.

Regardless of their lineages and genomic affinities, these individuals were often buried in kurgans which over time formed groups. These were not continuations of pre-4000 BC kurgans, but the communities instead made a conscious choice to build new kurgans after 4000 BC, adding to the idea of discontinuity. But once built, these kurgan clusters continued to be developed for hundreds of years, into the Yamnaya period. This does imply ethnic homogeneity or continuity, just a ‘continuity of place’. Without a direct attestation of a phylogenetic ancestor, and guestimating from their (non-identical) genomic profile, we are left to speculate that Y-hg R1b-M269 individuals moved down from somewhere in the Volga-Don interfluve. Perhaps amongst groups utilizing Repin pottery, but if so, they did not continue its use in their new contexts. By 3000 BC, the Majkop system collapsed. Yamnaya groups and their ‘Catacomb’ descendants took control of the north Caucasus region, having benefitted from years of trade/ exchange and knowledge gathering. Whether Yamnaya actually descend from individuals like KST-1 or NV3003 remains to be seen, however these are the closest leads we have. Certainly, we can model Yamnaya as deriving from KST-1 (88%) + Dnieper_N (12%), but we should be cautious when using singular individuals as ‘sources’.
See also...

The PIE homeland controversy: December 2024 open thread

213 comments:

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Iosif Lazaridis said...

@Gio
this is 100% Semitic Jewish line. Not surprising, since this is Italy, how it got there is no secret. ancient Romans Jesus here and there

Rob said...

speaking of Etruscans, etc; looks like Italy remained quite diverse into the BA.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-61601-8

The Beaker impact was quite minimal there, limited to western Sicily and parts of the northwest. IMO, L52-rich 'Italics' came from Danubian BA groups like Lech valley and Wietenberg

Gio said...

@Shomu Tepe

"@Gio
this is 100% Semitic Jewish line. Not surprising, since this is Italy, how it got there is no secret. ancient Romans Jesus here and there"

This is what Jews liked and like to think, but perhaps you know that in these last 20 Years I thought and wrote the contrary, and the 40 Years before in what you don't know: poetry and critics, but perhaps you know that for that I was banned pretty much from everywhere. But look at the last events: Jews had unthinkable disasters.
The paper of the Harvardians about Imperial Rome failed too, and you may look at what the same Davidski and Rob think now about the "Southern Arc theory", the last part of that. My idea (I think demonstrasted) is that hg J has no link with the Levant (and up to there it arrived above all 4200 Years ago from the Caucasus or Iran), but when it wasn't original from Europe it arrived independently from eastern Europe or through Anatolia, not from the Levant.
I supported many Years ago that hg. J2b1 (the YP snp cluster) expanded from Europe, mostly central or Baltic one. To find the same subclades in Italy and the Levant doesn't mean that they arrived in Europe from the Levant, but independently, and the subclades from the Levant are more recent. Look at the dates and above all to the aDNA.

Iosif Lazaridis said...

Russian archaeologists have used radiocarbon dating to determine the age of the cultural layers of the Zamil-Koba-1 site in Crimea. It turns out that the ancient grotto was used by people twice: at the end of the Upper Paleolithic (around 12,000 BC) and during the Mesolithic (around 7,700 BC).
What was found in the grotto?
Two cultural layers with a difference of 4,000 years
Ancient dwelling with a hearth, a sleeping place, and a bone
Unique artifacts:

pendants made from deer and cave lion tusks
remains of animals (giant deer, wild boar, wild ass)
fragments of a human skull (from a later period)
How was the age determined?
Scientists analyzed animal bones using radiocarbon dating:

lower layer: 12,052-11,556 BC (Shan-Koba culture)
upper layer: 7,729-7,581 BC (Murzak-Koba culture)👇

https://www.newsinfo.ru/news/stone-age-site/898277/

Gio said...

@Rob

Thank you for the link to this paper. Among many hg G, we have I-CTS10100 (8200ybp), J-PF5073/etc (6300ybp). More recent one R-L2. Fundamental are the mt, and many people should remember all what I wrote about the mt in many thousands of letters.

Iosif Lazaridis said...

@Gio
100,000% of them arrived in Italy from the territory of the Levant, the territory of the border regions of the Mediterranean Sea (Lebanon, the territory of modern Israel, Palestine), at least they came to Rome as Jews, and not as Caucasians, Georgians, Armenians, Iranians, etc.

Gio said...

@Shomu tepe

"@Gio
100,000% of them arrived in Italy from the territory of the Levant, the territory of the border regions of the Mediterranean Sea (Lebanon, the territory of modern Israel, Palestine), at least they came to Rome as Jews, and not as Caucasians, Georgians, Armenians, Iranians, etc."

Someone spoke about 70,000, but it isn't important how many of them arrived but how many of them survived and had descendants
1) slaves passed their nights in the "ergastula", a prison of about 1 mq
2) also who survived and had descendants in the Imperial Rome, you should know that the people of the cities went extinct in the Middle Ages and Italian people was due to the country people of the Iron Age and an intake of German people after the fall of the Roman Empire, in fact I am 99,5% Italian and in the uniparental markers I have some Longobard Y and I am pretty much a "Roman". The same my wife from Sicily: uniparental markers are German/Norman (mt K1c1f3 and R-L21, but we have Other R-L21 in Tuscany and they are under exam and they could have come also 2900 Years ago with the Etruscans)
3) the exam of the Jews from Erfurt 1350 AD demonstrated that they were Italian at 70%, 15% from Eastern Europe and 15% from Northern Africa, Middle East, Iran with no proof that they were "Jews". By examining other Italian Jews they seemed to me coming just from the "Imperial Rome", and anyway Ashkenazic Jews are an European cluster in 23andMe
4) I personally demonstrated the European origin of many Y-s (and I don't speak of the mt-s that also Jews think that they are "European") of the European Jews, including the Rothschilds (J-Y15223, very likely of Caucasian origin but present in Italy during the first millennium BC)
5) and so on.


Gio said...

@Rob

VEL701 Adige (TN) La Vela VII MN VBQ2 4545-4374 13-14 yo** M** Skull (PP right) XY 0.089-0.0916 Male 0.4798454-0.5331067 31.645.042 15.643.035 15.439.334 7.913.041 6.735.074 0,30 51,3 0,153 0,631 70 0,158 195381 0,192 172.370 17.112 0.025 - 0.035 2.506 9.6 (3.5) H 100 225 0,02 0,01 0,03 5.204 G-Z756*(xZ3205,Z27264) G2a2b2a1a1b
Also the hg G, specifically G-L497, once thought an Etruscan Y, is 6500 Years old in Italy and its origin in YFull is 7300 ybp, and it is so far the oldest aDNA, and it could demonstrate from where perhaps Yamnaya and nearby did come.

Iosif Lazaridis said...

@Gio
cool 💪👍

Moesan said...

@Gio
I have the feeling deep Italy is the womb of all Europeans when I read you.

Gio said...

@ Moesan

"@Gio
I have the feeling deep Italy is the womb of all Europeans when I read you".

It isn't what I thought and wrote. If, by the data at our disposal, I wrote that I-M223 from 20000 to 10000 Years ago and probably R1b1 from 14/17000 Years ago to the Younger Dryas lived in actual Italy it does mean that before and after that they were elsewhere. What I fought against when I began to write about these arguments was that the refugia in Europe were the Franco-Cantabrian and Balkan/Ukrainian ones and not Italy, because everybody thought that what is in Italy did Always come from elsewhere, and that hg J was "Semitic" and if it is in Italy now it is because it came from Semitics, and that Jews or Arabs or Caucasians are so from the beginning, and if some haplogroups lived sometime in North Balkans if they are in Italy now it is because Italians are Albanians or Turks or Northern Africans and they have the right to own Italy to-day etc etc.
What it is important in history is the "formation" of a people as I thought that it was an idea of Massimo Pallottino about the Etruscans, but after I realized that this idea was due to the great historian of Romans, i.e. Theodor Mommsen. The same prejudice is about Yamnaya, where my Y very likely lived 5000 Years ago, but probably it was in Italy before and it was Latin/Roman after (not excluding so far a Medieval migration from elsewhere), but I am now "Italian" at 99,5%, and my grandchildren are 50% Flemish, i.e. 100% German/Frank, and I am glad so...

Iosif Lazaridis said...

@Gio
was the northeastern Caucasus a refugia during that ice age? I know that Georgia was, I know that the southern Caspian was, these were the main refugia. But I don't know about the eastern Caucasus, where the mountains adjoin the Caspian Sea, for example, I know that in the LGM the Caspian Sea level did not drop below modern levels, which is strange to me, since at that time there was dry cold weather. Probably because the Volga was constantly fed by the Scandinavian glacier, I don't know, it's just that if Dagestan was also a refugia, this would explain why the Dagestani CHG was different from the Georgian one.
who has any thoughts about this?

Gaska said...

@Norfern Osthrobothnian

You are just speculating, neither you nor I know what the language of the European HGs was and we don't know if the EHGs and WHgs spoke different languages. You think they did and I think they didn't based on an obvious scientific fact.

The Yamnaya male markers are overwhelmingly of European origin so to think that these men changed their language because of genetic or cultural influence from the South Caucasus seems absurd to me. Whether that language was Indo-European is another story.

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